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gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 9, 2009
12:48 AM

Post #6239915

going to build a misting table for propagation of cuttings. have a good idea but would like as much input as i can get and any pics of one would be awesome.
what i'm thinking is to build a 2'x6' table with 6" sides. put plastic around sides and top then have misters hanging from top. and use sand or vermiculite for the media.
ok tear me down or build me up, lets hear those ideas.

buy the way does anyone know the best way to root apple or pear tree cuttings. and how and where to take the cuttings from. thanks "whitebear"
edgeoftheworld
Conneaut, OH
(Zone 5a)

March 9, 2009
9:14 PM

Post #6243892

Sounds like a labor intensive and expensive project,I'll stick with my spray bottle.Good luck
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 9, 2009
9:27 PM

Post #6243956

hay "E" not to bad on the price. i got the mister set up for a porch from atwoods for about $12 and the table itself i get most of the wood from the construction site trash piles."just ask first" nothing worse than a angry worker with a nail gun chasing you down the street. lol all in all under $30.
Artwestallis
Milwaukee, WI

March 9, 2009
9:33 PM

Post #6243981

dont havew answers for you there but also very interested
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 9, 2009
10:00 PM

Post #6244086

well if i don't get any idea's by friday i will go with my plans and i will post them and pics as i go along. thanks for chiming in, i still like to here from people even if they can't help at that time at lease i know your watching and are interested. so makes me want to keep the thread going. great gardening "whitebear"
seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 11, 2009
11:39 AM

Post #6250769

good morning-
the best way for apple and pear trees is not by cuttings, but by air-layering.

Google air-layering, and you'll find a wealth of information and step by step pictures.

It works really well, and you get a much larger start of the tree than you would if you did cuttings.

ON THE TREE:

Thumbnail by seedpicker_TX
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seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 11, 2009
11:39 AM

Post #6250772

just cut:

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seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 11, 2009
11:40 AM

Post #6250775

and the whole peach tree branch...

This is now a full sized tree growing in a friends yard :0)

This message was edited Mar 11, 2009 6:40 AM

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gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 11, 2009
1:44 PM

Post #6251096

thanks "seedpickertx" that is cool. i think now that you said it that i have seen it somewhere. but forgot all about it thank and i google it and will try it thanks again "whitebear"
seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 11, 2009
2:39 PM

Post #6251290

you are welcome :0)

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 12, 2009
5:22 AM

Post #6254947

I think a lot of work for nothing when you can use the box you built, mix peatmoss and perlite, then cover the wole thing with clear plastic. Rooting don't need a constant supply of mist to root, and you take a chance on cutting rotting. The above mentioned is how I root cutting.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 12, 2009
1:26 PM

Post #6255579

thanks "blomma" i'll try your method before i get started on the misting bed.
i think i will still make it for the hard to root things, was told that it was the best way to start hard to root thing so that the leaves wouldn't dry out. i can start easy cuttings no problem but i like a challenge and i'm always building something new just because. i like to stay "bizzy" whitebear"
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

March 12, 2009
2:34 PM

Post #6255838

You need to slow down, I can't keep up!

Just kidding, but I got a heating cable (with thermostat) and am starting a propagating bed this afternoon - I'll probably throw GH plastic over it to maintain both the heat and humidity.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 12, 2009
4:47 PM

Post #6256472

cool "pagancat" remember the pics "OR ELSE " lol p.s. did you catch the one i made on the greenhouse thread?
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

March 12, 2009
10:17 PM

Post #6257899

Uh oh, no I didn't...
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 12, 2009
10:48 PM

Post #6258042

here's the thread http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/951503/ its about half way threw

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 13, 2009
5:12 AM

Post #6259950

gthumbus

Since reading your other post about going commercial, I though I'd share a few tips.

I owned and operated a commercial greenhouse all during the 80's in Nebraska next to my home which was zoned commercial. I specialized in drought resistant perennials, and vegetables. I was the first in my town (possible all Nebraska) to offer spaghetti squash plants (before most people heard of it), Roma paste tomatoes, and a medium sized tomato called Earliana (60 days from planting), which I haven't been able to find anymore. Even Walmart wasn't offering any of these plants then.

I'm very familiar with greenhouse growing and the commercial end of it so take the following advise for what it is worth. Mine was 25ft long x 16ft wide.

Most important is the direction you place your greenhouse.
Situate the short sides of the greenhouse north to south. Many don't think of this and place the greenhouse with the long side facing the south. The reason is that placing it north and south, you will have more even sun without the sun blazing all day on a long side. Also, you will be able to adjust shading much easier. As the sun moves from east to west, the east part of your greenhouse will see some shade. A great place for plants that can't take afternoon sun. It is the same idea as when you plant vegetables in the garden. You want the sun to hit both sides of the plant and not shade others.

A greenhouse as you probably realize gets extremely hot in the summer. It absorbes lots of heat, even in the spring and fall. You will need fans, size depends on the size of your greenhouse. Air has to move to cool plants and prevent disease. In my greenhouse I used a 24" commercial fan that blew air through mist, located on the back of my greenhouse. Similar idea as a swamp cooler.

If you are planning to heat your greenhouse, you may need 2 heaters, again according to size. I had two mounted from the roof inside, hung by chains. They were placed at an angle one on each end of the greenhouse so that the heat was able to circulate throughout the greenhouse. Each should be slightly aimed at a side wall to bounce back inside the greenhouse. This way you will get an evenly heated greenhouse.

One last point. I don't know what competition you will have, and even if you don't there is money in specializing. Word gets around. No sense selling what can be bought cheaper at a discount store. I was the only one with a large collection of Sedums, hybrid Sempervivums, Irises and Daylilies, and other perennials. My specialty were plants aimed at Nebraska's climate, and the unique. I started all perennials from seeds, including vegetables, and annuals. Started perennials during August, and overwintered them in a coldframe for potting up and selling the following spring.

I wish you success in your future business and hope all your plans work out.

P.S. I also had a rooting bench built in the greenhouse for cuttings. I used a mix of perlite and peatmoss in the ratio of 1:1


gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 13, 2009
5:40 AM

Post #6260026

thanks "blomma" great info i like the idea of the spaghetti squash and the Roma paste tomatoes, its like growing a dinner. i also had an idea of a hot sauce hot house and grow everything to make hot sauce in it. i have a filling my tilapia part off the business is going to carry the greenhouse, not a day goes by that someone isn't asking me when they will be ready for market. there is a whole mung community that is waiting patiently. and again thanks for the advice. "whitebear" like i always say your never to old to learn something new just to stubborn.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 14, 2009
12:41 AM

Post #6263244

gthumbus
What is " tilapes"? I have never heard of it. In either case, your idea sounds great. Here is another tip.
If you have many resturants in your town, consider growing and sell fresh herbs. You can even dry them and sell them too. I had a few resturants approach me on that idea, but I was into flowers and didn't really have enough space for it. I grew some herbs for myself and family only. There is a huge difference betweed fresh parsley, and storebought. Other herbs are oregano and chives. Chives also have pretty flowers, easy to grow and clumps enlarges quickly.

You can specialize in those herbs that is popular where you live, according to their taste in food. What resturant wouldn't want a supply of fresh herbs, and vegetables. I don't know how big a business you want but it can become profitable with the right products. Food is always in demand.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 14, 2009
1:42 AM

Post #6263565

"blomma" tilapia is a fish from the middle east. they say it is the fish Jesus used to multiple to feed the people. so far i have 1 restaurant and two stores that want produce. and i do want to get into herb. this summer going to try and get my other greenhouse up just for the herbs. and as for how big i want to get. i want to get fairly big but not so big i can't talk to each and every customer.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 14, 2009
5:17 AM

Post #6264369

gthumbus
About the fish, now I seem to remember. Didn't know that is what it called. Thanks for the explanation.

As far as your business, that is great to have a restaurant and 2 stores want your business before you even got it going.

A word of caution. Grow slowly, which is wise for any business starting out. Realize that you will be a slave to the greenhouse, in your case greenhouses. It is not all fun and games, especially when it is a business. There will always be something (usually many)that require your attention like watering, spraying for bugs, cleaning, potting and repotting, pinching. I loved it but it had drawbacks of not being able to be away for too long. Memorial Day was my big selling day and I couldn't leave and have my fun. If you have family that will help you, so much the better.

I found that many customers wanted to talk, to gather information about plants. I sometimes felt I had to split myself in two so I could talk to more than one at the same time.

I hope you don't live where you get hail. It is awful sounding from inside a greenhouse. The noise is intensified inside.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 14, 2009
6:05 AM

Post #6264483

"blomma" thanks for the suggestions i do plan on going slow but am looking at buying the 3 acres next to us while the price is still low. as for help i have three boys and my dad likes to help so does my sister her husband and my nephew and niece so a little help there. then i think i have two people that want to intern with me for room and board. they want to learn aquaponics from me. as for hail not to much maybe once a year if that. the 2 stores have been after me for about two years to go full time so that they could buy from me, the owners have bought my tomatoes at the farmers marker and loved the taste, said was the best they had ever had. i water them with manure tea makes them tangy.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 15, 2009
1:35 AM

Post #6267995

gthumbus
Wow, all that help!. That is great, especially the fact that your Dad wants to get involved. That is really super.

Are your boys interested in gardening, and how old are they? Out of my 3 boys, only one is, along with my daughter. We all garden together and I share plants since I am the sower of flower seeds.

How interesting that you will take in interns to teach in exchange for board. That is a great idea and you can use the extra help.

Seems you have the whole future business in hand. Even with the economy, I think, you will do great. If you can get those 3 acres cheap, it is good to buy. Even if you decide not to use it, land is an investment---like money in the bank.

Since you hve everything under control, I have no more tips or suggestions to give you.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 15, 2009
2:28 AM

Post #6268337

"blomma" never stop with advice and tips or suggestions there is always something to be shared. even if i know it i still like to here it that way i know i'm on the right track. my boys are 19,10 and 8 the oldest will help but don't think he would garden if i didn't. the two young ones want their own greenhouse so the can start growing succulents. "whitebear"

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 15, 2009
4:34 AM

Post #6268877

gthumbusLOL. So will you give the 2 young ones their own greenhouse.?

Your boys are the right ages for gardening. My kids (4) grew up around my flowers because I always had a garden, flowers and vegetable since they were small. I can remember my daughter uttering when a teen, "I will never grow any plants" . Ha, she is now up to her neck in gardening ever since she moved into her own house.

My youngest didn't get into gardening until he and wife bought their own house a few years ago. He was in his 30's then. Now he starts flowers from seeds, rather than buy. He babies his lawn, which is beautiful. It goes to show that what kids grow up with, will influence most of them. I figured 2 gardening kids out of 4 isn't bad. Now, even his 6-year-old daughter, my granddaughter, is getting interested and "helps" her Dad.

Well, if I think of anything else in tip, I will surely share it with you. I think you are on the right track.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 15, 2009
4:44 AM

Post #6268907

its good to here the gardening bug is getting past on. and yes i'm going to build them a 12 x 16 greenhouse, that way they can learn the bizz for them selfs and hopefully make a little money on their own.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 20, 2009
12:41 AM

Post #6292199

hay "seedpicker_tx" see what you started. i did add a small tube so that i could add some water if needed.

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gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 20, 2009
12:44 AM

Post #6292208

and these. just the begining.

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seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 20, 2009
1:38 AM

Post #6292455

-:¦:-
.·´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ..·´Congratulations! -:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´-:¦:-
on your first air-layers. I hope they all take, and you have dozens of trees to give away :0)

You are hooked :0)

Grafting is a lot of fun, too. If you are as adventurous as you seem to be, you ought to try some grafting, too.

I tried last year for the first time, and got some to take my first try. I did roses, but am wanting to try a tree, next.

A.M. Leonard sells some great budding tape. It is called "buddy tape". I ordered from several companies to try different ones, and that was the best one.

They also sell a grafting tool that I'm tempted to buy...


gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 20, 2009
2:48 AM

Post #6292820

thanks "seedpicker_tx" i have been reading about grafting think i might try some time thanks again for turning me on to air_layering. "whitebear"
seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 21, 2009
1:19 AM

Post #6297224

you are welcome. Please keep up posted 3 months from now, when they should be finished :0)
-T
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 21, 2009
4:36 AM

Post #6297976

will do
cgarvin
Cottage Grove, OR
(Zone 8a)

March 21, 2009
3:55 PM

Post #6299357

after reading all the great advice on this thread so far I tought Id chime in my two cents. I built a small mist setup for my greenhouse. it uses a on off timer, a 24v transformer from a home heating system (also runs the automatic louvers) a regular automatic sprinkler valve and mist heads from the drip watering section of the hardware store. the timer cycles about every half hour and turns on for 1 minute, I use perlite and vermiculite as it has a slight tendancy to overwater. eventually i plan to get a timer that only cycles on for between 5 and 10 seconds every 10 minutes. but the setup as is works well, dont forget the heating cable in the media, makes all the difference in the world.

as for rooting your apples and pears, i use the hardwood cutting method, when you prune your trees midwinter just save the shoots that are about 3/8" wide and 15" long, stuff them in to the ground leaving about 3" sticking out and wait for spring, keep watered after they sprout and by next fall you have nicely rooted trees to dig and transplant, usually about 70% success rate here, and very easy to do large numbers.

hope this helps some
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 21, 2009
4:12 PM

Post #6299493

thanks "cgarvin"great advice i will try that with the apple and pear trees next winter. i'm wanting to grow what is called an edible forest on my side 3 acres
do you have any pics of the misting table,would love to see it?"whitebear"
stressbaby
Fulton, MO

March 29, 2009
1:50 PM

Post #6334943

Gthumbus,

I have a misting bench. 3' x 5' approx. Two mist heads fed from rainbarrel, controlled with 24VAC solenoid and a Phytotronics mister timer. I don't use the box you use describe. I just mix peat:perlite in cells, generally softwood cuttings, and set the timer to 5-15 sec every 5-20 minutes depending on outside temp, humidity, cloud cover that day.

I would make sure you have at least some drainage in the plastic. Also, bottom heat helps a LOT and so cables in the sand might be a worthwhile investment.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 30, 2009
12:29 AM

Post #6337690

thanks "stressbaby" do you have any pics
stressbaby
Fulton, MO

March 30, 2009
12:52 AM

Post #6337831

Sure.

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stressbaby
Fulton, MO

March 30, 2009
12:58 AM

Post #6337863

Another

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stressbaby
Fulton, MO

March 30, 2009
1:00 AM

Post #6337869

This is the timer, which has two zones. The other zone is for overhead misting.

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gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 30, 2009
2:10 AM

Post #6338231

thanks "stressbaby" nice setup gives me some ideas for mine
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

March 30, 2009
2:26 AM

Post #6338294

I went ahead and put together a seeding ... table? It's on the ground - 8'x4' pressure treated lumber frame with hardware cloth in the bottom that allows the cable to be fastened down. When all was said and done, I wish that I had made it a bit smaller - my cable was 48' and wouldn't cover the edges as much as the manufacturer suggested.

So, in order to keep the heat even, I filled the frame with plastic trays, put about 2" of water in the bottom of them. The trays are the same size as my plug trays. A piece of clear plastic (gh plastic) draped over it, and I'm a seeding fool! Hopefully I won't need to add the misting part as long as I'm using it for seeds.

My only concern is what's under the hardware cloth - it's just the gravel from the Gh floor. Do you think that I should put something else under it? I was warned that the field mouse (please, no) population loves styrofoam and to avoid that. Should I put a layer of sand over the gravel or will it make no diff?

I hope this makes sense.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

March 30, 2009
4:25 AM

Post #6338631

hay "Pagancat" i only have the gravel in my seed starting table and work great so far.
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

March 30, 2009
1:20 PM

Post #6339590

Excellent - that's good news.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

April 11, 2009
3:45 AM

Post #6394166

For anyone wanting to root a bunch of succulent cuttings here is a photo of my rooting box when I had a commercial greenhouse in the 80's. I used peatmosss and perlite as the rooting mix in the ratio of 1:1. The box is wood, lined with black plastic. No drainage holes since it is not needed for succulents. The box next to it does have holes since I use it for other type of cuttings.

Thumbnail by blomma
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cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

April 11, 2009
2:27 PM

Post #6395262

Has anyone heard from gthumbus (whitebear)? We are getting worried about our friend over in Greenhouses, hoping he is just busy.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

April 11, 2009
5:07 PM

Post #6395845

hay cathy i'm find just busy hay blomma that looks great i'm glad you posted that because my two youngest sons want to grow succulents. great looking cuttings
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

April 11, 2009
11:12 PM

Post #6397001

hay "blomma" haven't done much with on succulent do you keep them kinda dryor is moist ok?
otis
Morrison, TN

April 12, 2009
7:32 AM

Post #6398515

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/743771/

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

April 13, 2009
5:56 AM

Post #6402283

gthumbus The cuttings should be kept more on the dry side or they will rot. I used a sprayer to dampen the mix. Succulents root better when kept barely moist. Damp is a better word. Glad to hear your sons are interested in them. I wish I could still grow them. I had a large collection of both succulents and cactus when I had a greenhouse.

Caption: Huernia zebrina, a member of the Stapelia family

Thumbnail by blomma
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archipelago10
Lameroo
Australia

April 26, 2009
11:37 PM

Post #6467230

Intermittent misting obviously reduces transpiration losses. 60 years ago,I built a small unit in a table box on a bench inside a 20 ft glass conservatory.for getting walnut buds to take without the shrinkage of the bark and cambium layer separating the cut surfaces. There are timers now for the spray cycle and various capacity nozzles to maintain almost 100% humidity but not in those days. I used the mechanical principle of the artificial leaf set among the stocks. A filter paper strip was kept taut between two carbon cores from torch batteries. The wiring from a low power relay was soldered to the copper end. The relay energized a solenoid valve in the water line when contact being maintained by the wet filter paper strip was lost as it became a bit dry. The set up worked better than old practices but the problem eventually is with fungus developing in the medium - cured by heat sterilization before and after and chlorinating the containers etc.
capt44
Searcy, AR

June 1, 2009
8:31 PM

Post #6627524

Raised Misting Table.
I have a misting table that I made.
I used concrete blocks as supports to get the height I needed.
I used 8 ft landscaping timbers for the table.
I put a piece of stock panel from TSC Tractor supply for the table top for drainage.
I then use plastic motar mixing tubs from Lowes for the trays.
I drilled alot of holes in the tubs, put gravel about 2 inches deep in the bottom and filled with course sand.
I place my misting tips above the tubs.
If you space your cuttings correctly a 4 ft X 8 ft bed will hold approx. 4,000 cuttings.
I have timers on my misting system set to mist 12 seconds every 10 minutes from 8 AM till 8 PM
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

June 2, 2009
1:21 PM

Post #6630391

hay capt44 sounds like a cool system do you have any pics.?
seedpicker_TX
(Taylor) Plano, TX
(Zone 8a)

June 2, 2009
4:06 PM

Post #6631171

gthumbus-
how are the air-layers coming along?
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

June 2, 2009
8:23 PM

Post #6632254

going to open them this week and see but the branches past the place trying to root keeps trying to grow fruit and i keep having to prune them off. so i think thats a good sign. I'll let you know this week end for sure.
cathy4
St. Louis County, MO
(Zone 5a)

June 3, 2009
3:22 AM

Post #6634293

I had 2 small successes this week. I've been trying for 2 years to root dappled willow, my favorite shrub. I checked my latest attempt and have dozens of rooted pieces. I went very small with the cuttings on the very first branches to get leaves. I'm so pleased. They are tiny, but I know they will grow quickly. Plain old damp sand finally worked.

And 3 of the cuttings a friend sent me from her Meyer's Lemon are showing tiny leaves. It took months, and I was about to give up. 3 of 6, not too bad.
gthumbus
Gentry, AR

June 3, 2009
3:28 AM

Post #6634340

congrats cathy4 "pictures my good woman pictures i say.lol
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

June 3, 2009
2:20 PM

Post #6635681

capt44
I would really like to see some pictures of your misting table setup. I don't know what you mean by stock panel and I would like to see the size of your tubs. I am ready to build a similar table and pictures would help to see what you have done.

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

June 24, 2009
7:00 PM

Post #6732904

Wow! you guys are really busy, keep up the good work.

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