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Perennials: Self-sewn hellebores seedlings

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bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

March 31, 2009
10:47 AM

Post #6344022

I have a bunch of seedlings around the mother plant and tons of seed pods ripening. I suppose it's too late to dig up this years babies and pot them up before the new crop of ripening seeds drop.?

Thumbnail by bigred
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Weerobin
Saint Louis, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 31, 2009
10:05 PM

Post #6346695

I've got tons of them also, but have never had the energy to pot them up. Actually I was worried they were going to overtake the garden, but they haven't. Given the number of seedlings, I'm not sure why they haven't taken over. Seems like only a small number mature to adulthood?

kwanjin

kwanjin
West Valley City, UT
(Zone 7a)

March 31, 2009
10:11 PM

Post #6346715

I, too, have tons of the little ones and not one has survived. I suppose if I potted one or two... The same thing happens with my Buckthorn. Lots of little ones and nothing grows up.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

April 1, 2009
12:32 AM

Post #6347340

I have tons of them and they are all surviving. I've repotted and shared some; I've left some there. It's a shady spot that is somewhat protected from the elements. It has very good drainage.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

April 1, 2009
2:37 AM

Post #6347976

I pot my babies up at any time. They always seem to do well, no matter when I do it. Be careful to hold them by the leaves, the stems can be delicate.

I'd pot them up now, and rough up the soil some, so the new seeds can get a good hold.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

April 1, 2009
12:02 PM

Post #6348829

Thanks...I was afraid it might be too late to dig them up to pot up. If I loose a few..there's plenty of seeds on the plant yet to ripen.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

April 1, 2009
5:22 PM

Post #6350112

Hellebore seedlings are pretty tough, I think.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

April 2, 2009
12:01 PM

Post #6353799

I dug out and potted up one 36 ct tray(2 1/2 x 2 12 ")3 seedlings per pot, of the white and another 36 ct.tray(single plant per pot) of the burgundy. Fingers crossed they all survive. Still have tons of the white seedlings. I've have my garden club coming out to dig up surplus plants in my yard so I guess I'll put these on the list of things they need to dig.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

April 2, 2009
6:26 PM

Post #6355256

It's so great of you to share with your garden club. They seem to be pretty easy to germinate when they have the conditions they want. It's nice to know they won't be going to waste. I'm trying to get mine dug up and spread around my property so I can enjoy them everywhere.
Galanthophile
North East England
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

April 4, 2009
10:19 AM

Post #6362515

These can be like weeds in my garden so I can assure they are easy to grow and easy to pot up at any time. I try and keep the best seedlings - I have had some beauties that look nothing like the parent plants around them. I have potted up many plants to give away.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

April 5, 2009
10:45 AM

Post #6366480

I use to donate plants to our city beautifcation program but I never saw any planted around town(small town) so I had to wonder how many wound up on personal property. I twice I've donated several hundred dollars of shrubs and trees to city only to learn they were never planted and left to die so I quit donating. Sad.
perenniallyme
Jamaica Plain, MA
(Zone 6a)

April 6, 2009
2:44 AM

Post #6370054

That is sad! Thanks for the picture, bigred. Just noticed a ton of seedlings around one of my hellebores today, and now I know for sure what they are. Guess I'll let them stay there for awhile - nowhere else to put them, and I'd hate to pull them out. May be offering hellebore kids later on.
yotedog
Raleigh, NC

April 9, 2009
12:37 AM

Post #6384242

Anyone know at what point you can break the seedpod off the mother plant if you want to save the seed? Do they open at maturity or just dry on the plant?
Willowwind2
Union, WA
(Zone 8b)

April 9, 2009
1:16 AM

Post #6384383

The pods begin to open and if the seeds are black they are ready. They begin as green.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

April 9, 2009
12:05 PM

Post #6385722

I have TONS of ripening pods on my plants.

Even my tree peony I grew from seed has flowered and set pods...Yay!

GardeningNC
Durham, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 16, 2009
4:08 PM

Post #6418768

Does anyone know the best time to move a hellebore, mom has one that was planted too deep and has not bloomed in the four - five years she has had it... I'm hoping to lift it for her so maybe next year she can enjoy flowers :-) The one next to it is blooming and at the right depth so I know the spot is good - it is just too deep.

bigred - Tree peony from seed?? WOW!! May I ask what the seeds looked like and how you did it? I have some possible seeds from mine last year - but don't have a clue what to even try to do with them, that is if they are 'good'. May I say - very impressiv to me!!!
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

April 16, 2009
5:39 PM

Post #6419100

We just had this discussion on the PNW Forum (it's a long thread, so you may want to scroll to the bottom)

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/968714/

Basically, this is what I said:

I recently read an article by Mr. Hinkley that says to move them when they are in bloom . . . I don't think he was writing specifically about any one species.

Mine have done fine as long as they don't get dry during the process - I move lots of soil with them and then make sure to do it on a cloudy or wet day.

http://images.marthastewart.com/images/content/web/pdfs/pdf2...

And here's a bonus

http://www.timberpress.com/books/isbn.cfm/9780881927658/hell...

Kathy
GardeningNC
Durham, NC
(Zone 7b)

April 16, 2009
7:04 PM

Post #6419453

Thanks so much katie!! Ill scroll and read through - BUT thank you for the summary!!

donnerville

donnerville
Damascus, MD
(Zone 7a)

May 24, 2009
7:46 PM

Post #6591762

Wow! I wish I were in your neighborhood so that I could stop by to pick up a few :-) I have just collected 6 precious hellebore seeds from a plant in a friend's garden. Will planted them very very carefully :-)

cperdue

cperdue
Little Rock, AR
(Zone 7b)

May 24, 2009
8:23 PM

Post #6591882

I had tons of babies this year also. I potted up a lot of them and took to a plant exchange. I potted them several weeks before I took them and they seemed to be doing fine and growing. I also dug some up and moved to a different location in my yard. They are all doing find and have grown a bunch. I just scooped underneath with a small tool and lifted out a small group trying not to distrub the roots. Then just set them on some dirt in a pot and some in a shallow scooped out spot in my yard. Kept them in the shade and watered good.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 24, 2009
9:37 PM

Post #6592124

cperdue - Same here. I dug mine up last week and did exactly what you did. I was afraid they'd get shaded out by the mother plant if I left them. I was hoping they'd get a bit bigger (and hopefully tougher) before separating them into individual pots.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

May 25, 2009
10:03 AM

Post #6593964

I'll try to get a picture of the seed pod on the tree peony today
stetchworth
Ocean Springs, MS
(Zone 8b)

May 25, 2009
10:25 AM

Post #6593994

Hi does anyone have a few seeds to trade or for postage.

Thanks

cperdue

cperdue
Little Rock, AR
(Zone 7b)

May 25, 2009
4:27 PM

Post #6595265

Would send you some but mine have all opened up and fallen out on the ground. Didn't save any before they opened. Need to do that next time.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 26, 2009
2:26 AM

Post #6597947

stretchworth - I can check on mine for developing seeds if you like. They still had a few petals hanging on last time I looked so the seed pods may not be far enough along to collect yet. Mine are white. I bought some H. x hybrida last year from Sunshine Farms but they're not old enough to bloom yet but I'm anxious to see what colors they'll be.


pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

May 26, 2009
2:37 AM

Post #6597999

bigred, how are your little transplants doing?
stetchworth
Ocean Springs, MS
(Zone 8b)

May 26, 2009
9:50 AM

Post #6598831

Thank you Cindy, I appreciate that. and cperdue thank you for looking.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

May 26, 2009
11:22 AM

Post #6598949

they're doing great
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

May 26, 2009
12:38 PM

Post #6599137

Good, obviously you did it right then. I usually just leave them in the three inch pots over winter, and then pot them up in larger pots the next spring. For me they overwinter well, right on top of the ground. I stick them under the pine trees for the winter. I might lose one or two, but the majority overwinter fine. The seedlings are pretty slow growers.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 26, 2009
1:35 PM

Post #6599330

pollyk - Does the hellebore seed need to be sown fresh? I've purchased seeds in the past but haven't had any luck getting them to germinate. And, when you overwinter the babies under the pines, do they get a lot of protection from the branches? I'm wondering how they would do in a cold frame over winter.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 26, 2009
1:38 PM

Post #6599342

stretchworth - tried sending a d-mail but your name wouldn't come up. Send me your address and I'll send seeds as soon as they're ripe.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

May 26, 2009
1:52 PM

Post #6599390

Cindy, I assume the seeds need to be very fresh. My seedlings all come from the plants. I have never started any from purchased seedls.

No, they don't get a lot of protection from the branches, just some protection from the wind, but we have significant snow cover here. I think a cold frame would work well.

I really get a lot of seedlings from the Lady series. I would recommend you buy a couple of those plants, and then you should start getting tons of seedlings in a couple of years. I have Red Lady, Yellow Lady, and Metallic Blue Lady purchased, and planted close together, and the seedlings from them have been beautiful from very, very dark to a nice light yellow.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

May 26, 2009
4:57 PM

Post #6600090

Cindy, you can click on a person's name in this thread and then the option to send them a d-mail will come up.

Kathy
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 26, 2009
7:58 PM

Post #6600780

Katie - Thanks for the tip. I haven't done many d-mails and tried doing it through the mail option. BTW, do you know where I can find more info on doing searches? Sorry all for being totally off-topic but I have a heck of a time trying to do a search of the forums, getting a bunch of totally unrelated stuff. Thanks for your patience.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 26, 2009
8:06 PM

Post #6600816

PollyK - I'll have to keep my eye on the Lady series. I happened to see Barry Glick offering a multiples of x hybrida seedlings at a low price so thought I'd try some. They're the first ones I've ever purchased. My white ones came to me years ago through a different gardening website. I'm at the point though that in order to put more hellebores in the best location, other plants will have to move out to make room for them. Tough choices between Epimediums, Jeffersonia, Hostas, Primulas, Pulmonarias and Campanulas.
Willowwind2
Union, WA
(Zone 8b)

May 26, 2009
8:54 PM

Post #6601037

I raised a bunch of hellebore seeds in the house last year. They did great and are now getting their true leaves. They were slower than the ones I missed outside. I need to get them out of the little pots and into the ground.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

May 27, 2009
10:11 AM

Post #6603396

I read somewhere that older seeds can take up to a year to germinate so if I'm not sure how fresh they are,I sew them in pots then stick them under a shelf in the greenhouse and forget about them until the next year.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

May 27, 2009
1:27 PM

Post #6603953

I pulled out the Deno reference book which indicates that H. orientalis is a 70-40 germinator (5 to 10 weeks) or a 40-70-40 germinator (6 to 10 weeks) and that dry storage is fatal. Ken Druse indicates that sowing very fresh seed may shorten the long conditioning period.
Bigred - Did you have to water periodically or is it okay to let them go completely dry?
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

May 27, 2009
7:05 PM

Post #6605377

If you don't get an answer here, this might be a good question to ask in the PNW forum as we have a lot of Hellebore sowing activity there in the spring.

Kathy
Willowwind2
Union, WA
(Zone 8b)

May 27, 2009
10:51 PM

Post #6606343

They will die if you let them dry out.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

May 28, 2009
1:17 AM

Post #6606960

My area where they self sow never dries out.
bigred
Ashdown, AR
(Zone 8a)

May 28, 2009
10:38 AM

Post #6608299

I water them as I do my other plants in the greenhouse...they're just tucked back under a shelf so I don't watch them...watched pot never boils.
Keriblu
Johannesburg
South Africa

June 1, 2009
7:11 PM

Post #6627241

Hellebore seedlings take about 8 to 10 months to germinate. So anyone who has been given or bought seed, sow the seed, don't forget about keeping damp and eventually they will emerge. This is why there seems to be lots of seedlings under the plants, they are from last year.

To move a helebore - I cannot imagine anyone moving it when it is in flower, soon after would be the best, but of course if you can lift it with lots of soil then it will hardly notice. They flower in the depths of winter which is what I will be experiencing soon - southern hemisphere - and the helebores in my garden are looking good, but no buds yet.
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

June 1, 2009
10:49 PM

Post #6628036

I remember reading that in Heronswood too, though. To move it while in bloom. I have done so with no problems. Around bloom time is the best time to divide, also. Makes no sense to me. But it works.
CindyMzone5
Hobart, IN

June 2, 2009
2:00 PM

Post #6630581

Thanks for all of the info on the seedlings. Mine tend to germinate right under the mother plant so they're pretty much in deep shade where it's more moist. Dividing the grown plants however would have me thinking twice only for fear that I'd damage them after waiting so long for my first seedlings to flower.
katie59
Woodinville, WA
(Zone 8b)

June 3, 2009
6:35 PM

Post #6636956

Yep, an article by Dan Hinkley recommended moving them while in bloom. I would think it's because that's the time of year when they're not stressed by heat and/or dry.

But, frankly, if you're controlling the conditions they're going to adequately to stress them as little as possible, then I'm not so sure it matters.

Kathy
BigHat
The Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 5b)

July 8, 2011
7:39 AM

Post #8680040

I have seedlings coming up all around a couple of "Royal Heritage" mother plants.
Since RH is a hybrid, does anyone have a clue what types of helebores I might get from them and if the are worth saving?
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

July 8, 2011
11:34 AM

Post #8680456

I've had a lot of the seedlings from hybrids be close to the mother plant. So, yes, I think they're worth saving. Fun to see how they turn out. I've actually had some prettier than the mother plant.
springcolor
Lake Stevens, WA

July 8, 2011
4:20 PM

Post #8680907

If you love helebores the seedlings are great to save. I did this a while back and got a great variety of colors. One that was almost black. It took 3 years from seedling to plant with blossoms.
I also, went to a Dan Hinkley talk on just helebores and he said not to touch the roots with your hands when transplanting you seedings. I think he said they are very delicate at that stage.
I did it as a newbie with these plants and find that they are very resilient. BigHat just dive in. It is fun to see what you get and share with your freinds. we have a much more mild winter here than in New York and cooler summers.

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