My experience with Santa Rosa Gardens has been wonderful from beginning to end....The site is very informative and easy to shop in.... The staff is very helpful and when my plants arrived, they were carefully packed and healthy and beautiful...... I am already getting my next order together....You absolutely can not go wrong with Santa Rosa Gardens.....and the selection of plants is amazing..... bjmiller
On Jan 8, 2014, HazelCrestMikeB Hazel Crest, IL (Zone 5a) wrote:
Ordered for the first time from SR last fall based on the recommendation of "Virginiarose". I was very pleased with the quality of the plants that I received. Both of my banana plants are doing good indoors. Can't wait for spring to get them out doors. Anticipating many blooms from the other plants in the ground also. Highly recommend!!!!! Mike Burton
On Oct 26, 2013, DanSpitz_Guitar Bellport, NY wrote:
This is a great company....impressive website with a big selection of interesting and nice stuff...I placed a couple of orders with them...the items were VERY well-packaged---(carefully and intelligently packaged)...the items shipped out within just a couple of days of placing my order....the items arrived here at my place---not huge items, but really healthy looking...I've planted them items and they are doing well...I ordered a Buddleia from them and it's looking so cute and healthy planted in the ground...they have REALLY good prices on a lot of their items, too....this is a great company and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Santa Rosa Gardens....5 out of 5 stars !
On Oct 10, 2013, Wiberg2006 Kennewick, WA (Zone 6b) wrote:
I ordered 10 grasses late in the season at an absolutely great price. They came very well packaged, on time, and very healthy. Perfect. I had been looking locally for these grasses and they are hard to come by. They seem to be doing well, despite very high winds (gusts to 40 mph) and a torrential downpour two nights after they were planted. I will be ordering from Santa Rosa Gardens again.
WOW! I am a big believer in mail order garden resources but know that you don't always get what you pay for. That said, Watchdog 30 companies are pretty reliable. I had never ordered from Santa Rosa Gardens before so only ordered some clearance items. The plants arrived today and I am really impressed. The plants are all healthy and a good-to-great size. The packaging was the best that I have ever seen. If these plants don't thrive, it will be my fault. I will definitely be back. Sometimes you get much more than you pay for. Well done Santa Rosa Gardens!
On Sep 8, 2013, MarcBate New York, NY (Zone 7a) wrote:
Ordered 52 perennials and ornamental grasses and only 6 didn't make it, however, they were great about giving me store credit for them, and even threw in a $10 hydrangea I ordered as a free gift when I recently placed my second order. Highly recommended.
This is the best company I have ever ordered from. They sent the plants out the day I ordered and I received them a few days later. The packing was great and I couldn't have went to a store in town and got better looking plants.
Posted on June 27, 2010, updated August 12, 2013
I ordered plants from this company in May , with some hesitation. I've never ordered plants from mail order before. I was so excited when my plants arrived. Not only were they large size plants for the price ( very reasonable) ,but they were also very healthy . The company also provides an info sheet on how to plant them. I was unable to plant my entire order right away, & still the plants held their own. Now they look great in my garden! I can't say enough good things about my experience. I WILL DEFINITELY ORDER FROM SANTA ROSA GARDENS AGAIN!!!
On August 12th, 2013, cakelady04 added the following:
I believe this is my 3rd yr. ordering from Santa Rosa Gardens and I absolutely love this company. I don't always comment, but I felt I had to. They never stop amazing me with their products, and their customer service. I ordered 1 hibiscus,2 gaura, 5 sisyrianchium angustifolium, just to name a few. They are all doing beautifully. My hibiscus has so many blooms,I can't believe I planted it this yr. and the baby joe is lovely and already 2.5ft. tall. Eveyone comments on how stunning my garden looks with all the healthy plant, and I tell them it's thanks to Santa Rosa Gardens. Thank you SRG.
I placed several orders with Santa Rosa this Spring and another one today. The plants arrived in outstanding condition and just took off growing. Jude at customer relations was very helpful in solving ordering and shipping questions. This is an excellent company with excellent plants and service and very fair prices! Oh and did I mention the grasses? They have the best.
On Aug 1, 2013, Cinnamon31 Broken Arrow, OK (Zone 6b) wrote:
We ordered lavender & echinacea plants from Santa Rosa Gardens just over a month ago. They were packaged beautifully, are extremely healthy & everything was shipped quickly. Outstanding plants & service, thank you very much :)
ordered plants on Tuesday ,,received TODAY !( THURSDAY !!!!) They are beautiful and nearly the size of my garden centers that they have priced 3 times more ,I will not order from any other company again ! Packed beautifully !
Will not hesitate to order from them in future !
THANK YOU !
On Jul 18, 2013, jessflowergirl Fort Bragg, CA wrote:
WOW. I ordered a variety of plants on sale, received them within about two weeks of placing my order. All of the plants I ordered arrived in great condition, but one of my plants was held up with CA dept of Ag for some bugs they found. Because I only paid 1.99 for it, I wasn't concerned and wasn't even going to bother sending an email requesting replacement. Little did I know that the dept of ag let them know about my plant, and I received an email stating a replacement order had shipped. Not only did they send me a beautiful huge replacement plant, they sent me two free plants as well! I am very very impressed. Can I also say how much I love the sale prices!! It allows for gardeners like myself to try new plants without huge risk. I highly recommend Santa Rosa Gardens.
My go-to online nursery! Amazing plants that always thrive from the get-go, good selection, and great customer service! Does not get any better! Thank you for all of the wonderful plants you have provided!
I placed my first order with Santa Rosa Gardens ; it won't be the last! Perfect packaging, with obvious great care to assure no damage in transit. Their sale prices are compelling.
Thanks for the great service and perfect healthy large plants.
On Jul 3, 2013, Ispahan Chicago, IL (Zone 6a) wrote:
Posted on October 4, 2012, updated July 3, 2013
Amazing quality plants for the price. They have an excellent selection of sedums and ornamental grasses, all of which consistently arrive in perfect condition and healthy.
All plants I have ordered from Santa Rosa this year have settled in nicely, even with the extreme weather conditions (heat and drought).
Their spring and fall end-of-season sales are extraordinary bargains and cannot be beat by any other mail order nursery.
If only they would expand their selection of perennials to include more hardy geraniums and more unusual perennials, they would be a nearly perfect mail order nursery!
On July 3rd, 2013, Ispahan added the following:
Again, I have nothing to criticize about this wonderful company and I mail order from many, many nurseries. Prices, customer service, packing, shipping costs and quality/size of plant material are all thoroughly excellent. I only wish I had seized the opportunity to order even more Geranium 'Rozanne' from the end of season sale before they were sold out!
Santa Rosa, please look into expanding your selections of hardy geraniums and unusual perennials! I would love to see you offer:
--Geraniums like 'Lilac Ice', 'Bevan's Variety', 'Sweet Heidi', 'Syabru', 'Orion', 'Brookside', 'Crystal Lake', etc.
--Thalictrums like 'Splendide', 'Black Stockings', 'Evening Star' and 'Hewitt's Double' as well as T. rochebruneanum
--more cultivars of Phlox divaricata
--Agastaches like 'Blue Blazes' and 'Ava'
And many other things! Keep up the excellent work, excellent quality and excellent prices!
On Jul 1, 2013, pattygreengenes Lansdale, PA wrote:
Posted on June 15, 2012, updated July 1, 2013
Posted on April 30, 2012, updated June 15, 2012
Posted on June 26, 2011, updated April 30, 2012
I ordered from them for the first time recently, just a few sale items. Shipping was timely (I live on the East Coast) and the plants were well packaged and of good size for the price. Will order from them in again the future.
On April 30th, 2012, pattygreengenes added the following:
Received my 2012 order last week. Carefully packaged as usual. They confirm your order and keep you up to date on the shipping status. An excellent company. The morning glory I ordered, though, was infested with whitefly and I think I will have to dump it.On June 15th, 2012, pattygreengenes added the following:
Ordered another 10 or so plants. Santa Rosa and Lazy SS are my to two favorite sources. The plants I received are healthy, well packed and the shipping was very fast considering it had to cross the entire country. Love these guys - deserve their top 5 status.
Also, the morning glory has recovered now that it is outside and is blooming.On July 1st, 2013, pattygreengenes added the following:
Santa Rosa has replaced Bluestone in my heart as a source of inexpensive but healthy plant material. I love the sales as they give me an opportunity to try out plants that might be a bit iffy in my zone without spending a lot of money. Their communication is always prompt and the plants carefully packaged. I recommend them to everyone.
This year I bought:
Agastache hybrida Heatwave $2.99
Agastache Summer Sunset $2.99
Duranta erecta Cuban Gold $1.99
Helleborus orientalis Yellow Lady $2.99
Lavandula Provence $1.99
Salvia microphylla Hot Lips $2.99
Hosta Fragrant Blue $2.99
I often buy plants online, as a first time buyer at Santa Rosa, their quality is "beyond" the best I have ever received!!!!! These are $2.99 plants, and I did not expect such large beautiful plants. I ordered a number of "pia" hydrangea, which were lush and healthy. Where I live, these same size plants sell for $34!!!! I am in shock! I will spread the word.
The packaging is great and the postage is very reasonable.
Thanks Santa Rosa, you have another satisfied customer, who cannot say enough good things about your plants and service!!!!!
On Jun 21, 2013, COgardener2675 Fort Collins, CO wrote:
I buy via mail order frequently - but have never recv'd plants in such amazing condition. Each plant had a little "sock" around it, hand wrapped in brown paper, and obviously spritzed with water for their trip to CO. (they brown paper was still moist)
They came in perfect condition! The Guara had buds and the grasses were 2 ft tall! I was so impressed I immediately placed another order. Oh -- did I say these were their "SALE" plants and cost $2.99 or less? Flat rate shipping of $7.99 AND from my 1st order got a $5.00 off coupon. They are now in my list of favorite suppliers.
On Jun 21, 2013, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
"On Jun 21, 2013 3:49 PM, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
Glad to have you as a new customer! Happy gardening!"
I have been a long time customer of santa rosa but my last order didn't go quite as I had planned. It seems SR is taking shortcuts I have never seen them take before, making me wonder if they should still be my go to mail order nursery.
I have always loved that while the SA plants may be small, they have very well established roots that allow the plants to take off quickly. In very short time, you can't even tell that I didn't purchase the product locally.
I placed a large order for several plants. I purchased several hostas from their "bargain bin." Upon receiving them, I found out I was sent liners and the plants were HEAVILY root bound. Their website FAQ clearly states that they never send liners. Even the listing for this product status the product size as '3" grower pot.' When I contacted the company, they stated that the picture clearly represents receiving a liner. The picture does in fact have the roots showing (note, not root bound), even if no other text on the web page says a thing about this. Apparently the picture is supposed to over-write everything else.
I also ordered some hens and chicks off the site, to find they now use "2" catcus pots" ie liners. They just call them something different so that they can say they don't use liners. Well my particular product was listed as a "4" grower" pot. After pointing this out, they quickly changed all of the listings to display the cactus pot size. Beware, what they mean by cactus pot is a liner. The plant that I received had one tiny (maybe 1.5"?) head on it.
Then there was the ice plant that I ordered which had been so heavily overwatered for quite some time that it was completely melting when removing it from the box.
One of the non-bargain bin hostas that I was sent had a caterpillar on it, which had completely eaten one of the hostas down to almost nothing. I get that those guys are sneaky, and if that was the only issue probably would have just laughed it off.
I did receive several other plants which were up to the normal SA quality that I have come to love.
The customer service at SA is typically very top notch. They did reply to me quickly and did credit the above plants with apologies for listing the size wrong on the hens and chicks and the caterpillar. I can't ask for more than that as long as I order from them again and an use the credit. However, I didn't appreciate the snide remarks about knowing what I am receiving because of the picture, even if it doesn't align at all with anything on the website.
I don't know if I will order again, because I have been so fond of the fact that SA doesn't send liners, sends healthy plants ready to go crazy, and stands behind their product with no questions asked. Now I don't know of any particular way to determine exactly what I will be receiving, and I don't want to have to go through the hassle of receiving tiny plants that I will have to nurse before they can be planted.
On Jun 18, 2013, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
"On Jun 18, 2013 10:50 PM, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
We appreciate your feedback, and we certainly value you as a loyal customer. You can be assured that our goal is to always provide our customers with the best priced plants AND the best customer service in our industry. Our top goal, however, is to provide plants that will succeed for our customers. We grow many varieties of plants and our standard plant size is one that we are proud to offer and are confident will succeed for our customers. We worked hard to develop a pot size that is shippable but DOES set us apart from the bare-root and liner suppliers. For Santa Rosa Gardens, it's simple: If a plant does not succeed, we have failed and will do what it takes to remedy the situation.
Santa Rosa Gardens does offer 'bargain' plants at very low prices. These plants are noted on our website as being outside of our normal standards. This is how we describe our Bargain Bench on our website:
About our Bargain Bench: Here you will find an offering of plants which we may have only a few of in stock. Also, plants listed here may have blemished leaves or have suffered some cosmetic damage to the leaves or stems. These plants may be in smaller sized containers that we don't want to take the time to pot up or perhaps it's too late in the season. They will have significant 'clearance' pricing. Plants offered here are healthy, but will be sold cosmetically 'as is'. With proper care these plants will grow and produce the same quality flowers as the other plants but you can get them at bargain prices. Have a heart...give these plants a chance to flourish!
Bargain plants are exactly that...a bargain. Whether they are in a gallon pot or a 3" grower pot, we price the plants at a much lower price than that pot would normally sell. This season, some of our hosta did have overgrown roots, which is one of the reasons they were placed on the bargain bench and many were reduced from $12.99 to $2.99 per pot. Then some later reduced to $1.99 per pot. They were very viable plants that were a definite bargain to any gardener buying them. Yes, they were in a 3" deep pot, not a 4" deep pot.
As for our hens and chicks... We grow them in shallower pots because they simply do not root out as well or as quickly in a season. Their roots remain shallow and because they must also ship out slightly drier, in deeper pots they just end up being a dirt mess in the box. Our goal...provide our customers with a quality plant that will survive and flourish. We do price them accordingly.
We guarantee what we sell...period. Plants are not perfect creatures and we certainly are not either, but we stick to our goal. Provide our customers with plants that will flourish and that they will enjoy. If we fail...we WILL and DO make it right. We hope you will continue to give us an opportunity to prove that to you."
Issue: I received my order today of the 7 miscanthus sine sis Little Zebra. Of the 7 all but 1 are very nice. I would like to get this 1 replaced with 1 of equal size to the others.
Resolution: I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate the way this issue has been corrected. You don't see great customer service like this anymore. I received the replacement plant today and it more than exceeds my expectations. Thank you so much for the expedient way and without question in which you handled this. You have a customer forever!
On Jun 16, 2013, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
"On Jun 18, 2013 10:53 PM, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
So glad the resolve worked out. We had a very busy season and more folks gathering plants in the greenhouse than ever before. If a poor plant is selected and shipped, we want to know...so that we can correct the problem. Thanks and happy gardening!"
Great company! Two orders this year. Both came EXTREMELY fast. PERFECT and best packaging I have gotten for plants and I get a lot of plants and bulbs via web companies. The plants that came were all very large (much larger than most companies) and appeared very healthy. Every plant is doing well. I am very satisfied and will be using them again! One of my orders was a clearance sale for end of the season. I ordered and RECEIVED the plants within one week!
On Jun 14, 2013, Patt52 Rydal, GA (Zone 7b) wrote:
First time ordering from this company, and now I see why so many people love them!! I was very happy to see such large well rooted plants that was delivered to my door. I will certainly be a return customer as I see plants that I need or want to try. The two grasses I ordered were huge and the other plants were nice also. A little disappointed that one I have been wanting was out of stock, but I totally understand when it is an end of Spring Sale! Thanks so much SRG! I'm sure I will be ordering again in the Fall!
I ordered Bargain Bench and sale items at the end of spring sale, and I got a fabulous order, excellent in all respects. I expected little plugs for these prices, but I got larger, healthier plants than even expensive mail-order nurseries send, and what a DEAL!
Bargain Bench hoya had 2-3 growths per pot, totally healthy root systems, not a single browned leaf, and were a fraction of the price local nurseries have on their sale plants. Geranium Rozanne came planting size, full root system, some blooms even open, foliage fresh, ready to plant. Delosperma Fire Spinner was an absolute steal - way cheaper than anywhere else online or in nurseries, 4" plants with runners that spread 12", great roots. The bargain closeout stevia has a pencil-diameter main stem and is over a foot tall.
Packing was careful to keep plants from breaking/crushing, and shipping was Fed Ex 2 day, so plants were moist and happy, right out of the box. And the flat-rate shipping, wow! Just price the usual postage on such a large, heavy package, and you'll see what a great deal this is.
If you've bought from mail-order nurseries such as "pale-blossom farm" or "azure-rock perennials" (you experienced gardeners know who I mean), your Santa Rosa Gardens order will delightfully surprise you! Can't be beat!
On Jun 7, 2013, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
"On Jun 18, 2013 10:55 PM, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
Great feedback on the packaging. We're constantly working on it to improve! Thank you for your business."
On May 29, 2013, dlaurence Richmond, MO (Zone 5a) wrote:
I've ordered plants from Santa Rosa for many years now. This year, I just received 20 Karl Foerster (Calamagrostis). Here's what I like about this company:
1) order acknowledged in one business day.
2) order shipped FEDEX and received within 5 business days.
3) plants double-boxed in a plastic flat, and secured with netting.
4) plants always deep-rooted.
5) customer service responds quickly to concerns.
Santa Rosa is one of the absolute best online nurseries...My order was received well packaged with hearty plants. Great customer service and communication.
'My second order was for only one backordered plant so it was at the bottom of a packed with paper box and did not fair to well in travelling. Santa Rosa quickly said they would reship when I contacted them.Great company to do business with.
On May 9, 2013, cwsomm Dundalk, MD (Zone 7a) wrote:
I just recieved my shipment of hostas and an apple mint plant. As always, the packaging was the best of any company that I use. The plants arrived in wonderful condition.
I did have one hosta back ordered and they emailed me immediately to see if I would like a substitution or if I'd like to wait for the order to be shipped in June. I am waiting until June.
All of the plants that I have ordered from Santa Rosa Gardens have always been shipped in great packaging and the plants in great condition. I have been fortunate enough to see all of my plants coming back this year.
Order arrived at the time I requested. Plants were nicely packaged and each covered by a mesh sleeve which allowed the plants to breath but stay protected. Good and healthy, these plants were nicely sized for the price.
I received my recent order today. Everything was perfect, as usual. Much to my surprise I received 8 plants instead of the 6 that I ordered! Someone found two Carex Everdi that were unavailable and they were sent to me free of charge!
I want to thank you for the plants and for your excellent customer service. I live in an area that does not have access to super garden centers and the few garden centers here carry limited variety. I have tried other on-line plant companies on the few occasions that you were either sold out of something I was interested in or didn't carry it. I have always been disappointed in their plants. They are never as vigorous, as large or as well packed as your plants. Your shipping is faster, your shipping charges are less and your prices are very, very competitive. In most cases, less than other companies!
I can't say enough about your wonderful company. Your web site is a "class act" compared to others I have encountered and your customer service is exemplary.
There is a reason Santa Rosa Gardens is a Watchdog 30 company. When they say "100% satisfied, they mean it. I have ordered from this wonderful company in the past and have always been extremely pleased.
I had a concern with a recent order and emailed them. Within 24 hours I had a response and the matter solved. Thank you Santa Rosa.
On May 6, 2013, mombly Carrollton, TX (Zone 8a) wrote:
Posted on June 15, 2011, updated May 6, 2013
Today I received my first order from Santa Rosa - all I can say is WOW. I've been mail ordering plants for almost 10 years, often from another seller listed as one of Dave's Garden's Top 5 for perennial, and I've never received plants through the mail that were anywhere near this nice before. Since the plants were purchased from Santa Rosa's end of season sale, this makes their condition even more impressive. In particular, I purchased the last five Echinacea Hot Summer plants in stock and expected that these would arrive in the same condition as the last plants at my local 'big box' store at the end of a summer. Instead, they were tall, green, full and healthy. Of the 32 plants I received, only one lavender plant looked a bit tired and dry.
I look forward to planting these guys in the next day or two. Hopefully our 100 degree days (and 90 degree nights) won't be too much for these lovely specimens.
On May 6th, 2013, mombly added the following:
WOW again. I usually make most of my purchases from Santa Rosa during their end of season sales, so I had forgotten how really great their plants are in the spring. I'm always happy with the sale plants, but the plants in this shipment couldn't be better! Over the past couple of years, you've become the only online plant company I purchase from. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
So absolutely suprised and delighted by my Santa Rosa purchase! I ordered Dianthus Brilliant Star and Coreopsis auriculata Nana. All of the plants were beautifully and meticulously packed. And the plants were large, gorgeous and healthy! I can't wait to order from them again.
On Apr 26, 2013, Skypilot3474 NELLYSFORD, VA wrote:
I'm writing here to give Santa Rosa Gardens a great thumbs up! I placed an order for four of their small fountain grasses called "Piglet". They were shipped and packed very well and the plants were healthy and of good size, but then I noticed that a part of one of the plants looked suspiciously like crab grass. I called Santa Rosa and the lady answering apologized for the shipment and said she'd send another as a free replacement.
The following day I decided to plant the remaining three, but when I looked more carefully at the third plant, it too looked like a young crabgrass. I wasn't positive, but felt uneasy about planting it. I called them again and recognized her voice. I told her another plant that seemed wrong. She said she had already intended on sending a second grass to make sure the entire order was right. She also told me she'd examine all the Piglet plantings there and caution her staff to be extra careful with these grasses. She also said she would ask the order department to show her the plants before they were packed.
Hats off to Santa Rosa Gardens! I'll attempt to send all my orders their way. They offer great customer service in this No Customer Service world!
On Apr 24, 2013, timonsgirl Mount Prospect, IL wrote:
I can't believe I completely forgot to rate this company last year!
Santa Rosa has excellent plants at excellent prices and wonderful customer service.
Last year I ordered numerous coreopsis from them during a mid-summer sale.
The plants all arrived thriving. Within weeks every single variety of coreopsis I ordered was in bloom and kept blooming through fall.
This year I placed an order for 3 butterfly bushes, more coreopsis and an echinacea. I haven't received them yet but if they are even half as nice as the plants I received last year I will be very happy.
I'll update when I receive this year's order, which I am greatly looking forward to receiving.
On Apr 22, 2013, Bella30127 Powder Springs, GA wrote:
My experience with Santa Rosa Gardens has been excellent. I had been using Bluestone Perennials for years but their prices have become too high. So far, I've placed two orders with Santa Rosa and the plants have been very healthy looking, packaged well and their prices are far more reasonable. I'm so glad I discovered them as they have become my "go to" source for online ordering.
Posted on May 5, 2009, updated April 17, 2013
I ordered several items online from Santa Rosa Gardens for the first time this year. The prices were great (lower than most other places) and they had some unique items I was looking to buy.
My order arrived the week I had requested it and all the plants were in healthy condition and well-packaged. I was notified that one item I ordered, Panicum 'Northwind', was back-ordered and would arrive in a few weeks, but this was not a problem for me. All-in-all, I would definitely recommend Santa Rosa Gardens to anyone.
On April 17th, 2013, BlackDogKurt added the following:
I ordered several more plants in 2013 - Aquilegia canadensis, Buddleia davidii Black Knight, and Lobelia cardinalis. As with before, everything arrived on time and in perfect condition.On Apr 17, 2013, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
"On May 5, 2009 12:26 PM, Santa Rosa Gardens responded with:
Thanks so much for the comments and for your business. Thanks also for understanding about the short delay with the Panicum grasses. Panicums are one of the last grasses out of dormancy for us and we don't like to ship until they are showing good growth. "
I don't know if I have the words to describe everything that is good about Santa Rosa gardens.They give you the best in customer service.The plants are always delivered on time.The plants you receive are always packaged the correct way and always in great condition.Now for my own experience.I have only been gardening for a couple of years.But I have over 3000s.f.of new gardens.I have looked for something to take my mind off of things I have had to deal with for over thirty years.One day I took an interest in gardening and have spent almost all of my time researching gardening from A-Z.I used a couple of other nurseries with not so good results.Then I found Santa Rosa and I will never go any where else.I want to thank them for all you have done for me.Gardening has put the smile back on this old warriors face.
On Mar 18, 2013, JonSchneider Fleming Island, FL (Zone 9b) wrote:
great customer service and great products deserves recognition. Once again, SRG comes through with both. Their packaging methods is superior and I never lose soil as a result. Jude and SRG are well deserving of a top 30 spot!