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Comments regarding Oakes Daylilies

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293 positives
2 neutrals
4 negatives


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Positive ericfloyd
(4 reviews)
On Mar 17, 2012, ericfloyd Weatherford, TX (Zone 8a) wrote:

Posted on October 1, 2010, updated March 17, 2012
This was my first purchase from Oakes Daylilies based on reviews here at Dave's.

Wow! I saw all of the reviews about how big the plants are from Oakes Daylilies, but when mine arrived I was still shocked! The plants are enormous! Actually, each plant is really 4 or 5 plants! MUCH larger and healthier than other mail order daylily stores.

This gardener has just found his favorite daylily site!!
Thanks Oakes!!

On March 17th, 2012, ericfloyd added the following:

Huge, healthy plants! Just outstanding! THE place to order daylilies! Thanks again!
Positive pirl
(33 reviews)
On Feb 10, 2012, pirl (Arlene) Southold, NY (Zone 7a) wrote:

Better late than never to tell of my wonderful experiences with Oakes.

All daylilies were at least triple fans and they were quick to bloom. They've always sent bonus plants and I've never had a problem with mislabeling or substitutions.

I highly recommend them.

Positive rnwhit63
(1 review)
On Nov 15, 2011, rnwhit63 Salisbury, NC wrote:

I received 2 orders from Oakes. All were excellent plants. The second order included the reblooming collection. I took this collection to a second garden in Zone 8 . My primary gardening location is Zone 7. The reblooming collection did not do well in the Zone 8 location. I contacted the company with the names of the 6 daylillies I lost and was promptly sent the new plants. This group has faired better but not nearly as well as my Zone 7 plants. I was very pleased with the customer service and would not hesitate to order from them again.

Positive eden100
(3 reviews)
On Sep 16, 2011, eden100 Edinburg, IL (Zone 6a) wrote:

I AM BLOWN AWAY!! I had never ordered from Oakes before. I decided to order because they promised HUGE multi fan clumps and they have such a LARGE variety of daylilies. Other places give one fan and there's no guarantee that you'll get a single flower in the first year. I ordered nine varieties and received all nine plus an extra HUGE clump OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE ONE THAT I HAD CHOSEN as a FREE GIFT! The order arrived PROMPTLY. I AM BLOWN AWAY TO SAY THE LEAST!!!!!! The least expensive one that I ordered was $5.95 and the most expensive one was $25. For the money you CANNOT BEAT THE OAKES DAYLILIES! I couldn't be more pleased and I can't wait to see the blooms next year. Who would have thought you could get this quality through mail order. THANK YOU SO MUCH OAKES!

Positive Mike_Crawford
(1 review)
On Aug 31, 2011, Mike_Crawford Redmond, WA wrote:

Posted on March 21, 2011, updated August 31, 2011
Posted on June 14, 2010, updated March 21, 2011
Normally I wouldn't even consider posting about a purchase until after I've had a chance to see how the plants perform, but I'm quite blown away by my first order from Oakes:

I ordered the "Mixed Daylilies", quantity of 25. They added 5 more of the same for the bonus plants, and yet another 3 for a total of 33 plants. The box was STUFFED with 30 pounds of daylilies (not dirt) -- Oakes appears only to have stopped when they simply couldn't safely get anymore in.

The plants were huge, and the fan count per plant was amazing. I just had to run a tally: 3 fans (count of 3), 4 (11), 5 (6), 6 (7), 7 (2), 8 (2), 10 (2). IOW: they averaged 5.3 fans/plant, and the higher counts were not limited to just the smaller width varieties. VERY GENEROUS. On top of that, all the roots were huge and already loaded with the beginnings of many new fans.

Since I want to know what colors they are before I put them in the ground, I put them into 2 gallon pots -- several of the larger width varieties were really too big even for that large a pot size -- I had to wrap the roots around to get them in. Not that I didn't divide some as well -- in the end I filled up 48 pots, all from an order of 25!

Finally, I want to mention that despite being trucked for 4 days and 2,200+ miles, the plants were in fantastic shape. The plants were still nicely hydrated, yet I couldn't find any bruising or rotting. I don't know if prepping and packing like that is an art or a science, but Oakes sure knows how to do it right!

I'll be buying more!

On March 21st, 2011, Mike_Crawford added the following:

In fact, I did place a second identical order 6 weeks later, with similar results. Alas, even the first order was too late in the season for many blooms, but those did bloom were beautiful. I set aside my plan of putting them only in pots until I'd seen their colors, with the result being that about half spent the winter in the ground, and the other half in pots covered in mulch.

Despite my uncovering their new growth just before an unexpected late winter stretch of VERY cold weather for our part of the Pacific Northwest, I DID NOT LOSE A SINGLE PLANT. They are all in the ground now, and are growing vigoriously. Bring on the blooms.....
On August 31st, 2011, Mike_Crawford added the following:


The bloom results are nearly complete:

-- 50 plants ordered (2 orders of 25 ea) last summer
-- 84 plants planted (extra from bonus plants + splitting)
-- 0 plants have died
-- 76 have bloomed so far (1 bed has too much shade)
-- 20 (YES, 20!) separate varieties have bloomed:
18 plants of 4 gold or orange varieties
19 plants of 4 yellow varieties
7 plants of 3 red varieties
16 plants of 3 lavender or purple varieties
7 plants of 4 pink varieties
9 plants of 2 white varieties
-- 5 plants of 3 varieties are double
-- 21 plants of 7 varieties have eyezones

I've got to say that I'm VERY PLEASED. Frankly, I hoped for, but never really expected so many different varieties. And the number of blossoms, despite a record cool spring and late summer in the Pacific NW, was amazing.

Oakes' online description for this was: "...the mix is heavy on the pinks, reds, purples, and eyezones, with mostly large flowers and lesser numbers of yellows, golds, and oranges"

Given that 3 of the pink varieties are peachy pink, the mix is actually leans more towards the yellows, golds, and oranges, but that would be my ONLY complaint. And even that might not be fair -- the reds in this mix seem to be mostly late bloomers, so those that haven't bloomed yet could change the balance.

The mix contained a nice blend of short/medium/tall flower scapes, and, as described, mostly large flowers.

And there was one additional pleasant surprise -- I noticed early on that many of the "seedling" flowers sure looked identical to several popular and recognizable named varieties Oakes sells. An email to Oakes confirmed that their seedling mix does indeed sometimes contain "lost tag" plants. I won't mention which varieties I think I've identified, but if I'm right, several are quite pricey if purchased as named varieties! Fantastic.

Positive RUBYS
(15 reviews)
On Aug 9, 2011, RUBYS Wrens, GA wrote:

Posted on January 26, 2011, updated August 9, 2011
After reading such good reviews of this company I decided to place an order. I had the hardest time making a choice because there was so many to choose from. I did purchase a spider(Umbrella Parade) that didn't have any customer comments. I hope it was a good choice. I Can't wait to see it bloom.

On August 9th, 2011, RUBYS added the following:

Did not have a great season. Umbrella parade,Flutterbye,Buttered Popcorn, and Miss Lucille never bloomed. I got great blooms from C. Johnson and Miss Amelia is still blooming. All plants came with 5 or more fans and I used compost in my beds so I am assuming that it was the consistently hot dry weather that resulted in such poor performance. I look forward to next year.
Positive mijardin3
(2 reviews)
On Jul 15, 2011, mijardin3 Seymour, TN wrote:

I recently purchased some more daylilies from always it was a pleasant experience and my daylilies look wonderful. I'm one of their regular clients..never have bought a daylilie from them that was not in the best of shape...and they always do great in years to come. I so highly recommend this company.

Positive worrall235
(4 reviews)
On Jul 15, 2011, worrall235 New Braintree, MA wrote:

We built our house and garden over an old sandpit in MA and have been planting Oakes daylilies for the past 4 years, mixed orders as well as individual varieties. The plants were healthy and huge (more than 3 fans) when they arrived. We tend to buy them at the end of season - overwinter in the garden - then move them to their permanent spots in the spring. Every one of the 150+ have grown and bloomed and are almost ready to be divided. They are spectacular!

Positive plantgnome1
(31 reviews)
On Jul 13, 2011, plantgnome1 nowhere land, NY (Zone 6b) wrote:

Posted on October 9, 2010, updated July 13, 2011
Posted on October 8, 2010, updated October 9, 2010
I just received two of my three orders in a timely fashion, packaged very well, these are the hugest, healthiest clumps of daylilies I have ever received from any mail order site. So far I am thrilled with Oakes, I will be planting tomorrow and will report back in the spring with growth and bloom info. If the growth and bloom are positive, I will be purchasing more next year when I start my 11th (or is i 12th?) garden which will be mostly daylilies and grasses with some ground cover. I also liked that they have no minimum order requirement.

On October 9th, 2010, plantgnome1 added the following:

I forgot to mention that they also sent two free daylilies which I was contemplating purchasing. Great surprise. Give them a try if you already haven't.
On July 13th, 2011, plantgnome1 added the following:

I purchased over a dozen daylily plants from Oakes last fall and every one of them has bloomed beautifully, even the ones that don't get a full day of sun. I potted some and planted others in the ground. All except Hyperion,which did not produce any scapes, has bloomed. I just now moved Hyperion to an area receiving a little more sun. We'll see what happens. If it fails to bloom I will move it again to a container in direct sun next season. Just placed another order this past weekend.
Positive homesteadgirl
(5 reviews)
On Jun 26, 2011, homesteadgirl middle TN, TN wrote:

I ordered 3 or 4 reblooming daylilies about a month ago. The plants were 50 times the size of any I had ordered from QVC. They are still growing, so I haven't seen the blooms yet. I will order more if these are great. I went to their festival yesterday and enjoyed it a lot.

I found Paradise Gardens on the web and read a few reviews on this site. Apparently, they are the same as Oakes Daylilies, as the exact same pictures and prices were the same. I don't know why they have to different sites.

Positive magnaastra
(43 reviews)
On Jun 24, 2011, magnaastra Charleston, IL (Zone 6a) wrote:

OMG, these daylillies are amazing...all I can say is WOW, talk about an over-the-top buying experience.

Like a box full of funky outer space creatures, they're bursting with huge, thick (!!!) roots, brawny, beefy things that look as if they could survive anywhere. Each clump is just MASSIVE. I feel sort of guilty, since I ordered them only to cover a truly-terrifying-to-mow hillside; these beautiful things belong in the front of my best display garden, since I'm sure those enormous roots will give rise to gorgeous could they not???

Will I buy again? DUH...fer sure, dude!

Positive marleec
(5 reviews)
On Jun 21, 2011, marleec Adairsville, GA (Zone 7b) wrote:

The order, packed well and in good condition, was received promptly 10 days later. They also included a free plant. The plants were large (four fans minimum) and healthy looking. I planted them the next morning and, to my surprise, the following day new sprouts had appeared. Now, one of the plants already has buds. I will order again and would recommend them to others.

Positive Mylena1
(10 reviews)
On Jun 12, 2011, Mylena1 Cliff Island, ME wrote:

I ordered for the first time from this company because I needed a few really nice flowers to put them near the church. And I was not disappointed with what I got. The lilies were huge, I could have divided each of them into two or three plants if I had enough room where to plant them. And they began to grow at once. I also got a bonus plant - just what I wanted to have. I can't wait to see them blooming, then I'll add another review. THANK YOU!

Negative drthor
(8 reviews)
On Jun 4, 2011, drthor Irving, TX (Zone 8a) wrote:

More than one year ago I have orderd 6 daylilies.
It was the first time I spent so much money on bulbs/ryzomes and the reason was that I really wanted daylilies that make a large flower and that they are very tall.
The 6 daylilies arrived promptly and I planted them right away.
I was so excited because they really were growing really well and they started to develop a flower stock.
Well..... all the flowers were about 8"-10" tall and not over 60" like advertised on the catalog.
So I called Oakes Daylilies and they told me that it is normal for the first year that the flowers are so short and that they will reach their full size next year.
Well ... one year after, the daylilies are still 50" shorter than what they advertised.
So I emailed first and they were really slow to answer, finally I decide to call and they told me that they will send me the same plants again.
Well... so they were sending me the same 8" tall dayliles !!
No ... I didn't want that, so I asked for a refund and they wanted me TO DIG THE DAYLILIES AND SHIP THEM BACK TO THEM !!!
So after I spent energy on planting, and waiting and wasting time they want me to spent more energy to dig them up.
I never experienced such a BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE !!!!
So now I am waiting to receive other short daylilies bulbs !! which I probably will give away ... no worth my time to plant the worng plant again !!


Positive iceman49
(2 reviews)
On May 30, 2011, iceman49 Saint Paul, MN wrote:

First time I have ever ordered from Oakes Daylilies, what a great experience. My order arrived the last week in May, just as I requested. The plants were of exceptional size and great root structure, the company was kind enough to send me some bonus plants...when I saw the color, I knew that someone had taken the time to see that they matched my current order. Exceptional job, I will be ordering again from this company.

Positive pickyjulie
(1 review)
On May 28, 2011, pickyjulie Leesburg, FL wrote:

Have for over 38 years ordered multiple varieties of multiple plants from all the top nursery suppliers ........ first order from this company -- NEVER have I received plants like these !! Absolutely perfect, healthy, robust, extra-large and immaculately packed. Plus, on an average-sized order, a bonus plant that was of pricier value, AND more importantly, was obviously selected by someone paying attention to my preferences and needs gleaned from the selections I made in the order itself. These people are northing short of amazing -- if I ever worked for a nursery, I would want it to be Oakes -- their standards are obviously in the stratosphere............

Positive swedegarden
(2 reviews)
On May 28, 2011, swedegarden fitchburg
United States wrote:

The daylilies from this company are super. they send huge plants that look ready to take off As good or even better than buying from a grower. Swede garden

Positive dollartist
(2 reviews)
On May 27, 2011, dollartist Winter Springs, FL wrote:

Posted on May 5, 2011, updated May 27, 2011
First order from this company just arrived . A big, perfect clematis, not a leaf out of place or damaged. And a big Chicago Star daylily bonas too!!! And excellant care instruction for both plants. I'll be back.

On May 27th, 2011, dollartist added the following:

Just received my second order from Oakes Daylilies ...those are some big plants!! The roots are hugh and the bonus daylily is one that I've admired for awhile, so I am very happy. The only complaint is that I'm becoming addicted to these daylilies!!
Positive bewalsh
(2 reviews)
On May 23, 2011, bewalsh Montpelier, VT wrote:

Oakes sells some big, healthy daylilies! Wow. I couldn't be happier with the quality of their plants - their roots were huge, and the smallest clump I got was about the size of a softball. 3-5 fans each, at a minimum, and actually a couple of the individual clumps turned out to be two separate daylilies, each a nice big, healthy plant by itself! One other thing worth noting - I got several orders as wedding gifts, and each had a bonus, gift daylily from Oakes. Don't know if that's a special case, or SOP for them, but much appreciated either way.

One minor quibble. When I got the first box I emailed them through their website, to clear up some confusion on my end (while the three orders were separate, I thought the boxes were coming together, but one arrived ahead of the others). Oakes never got back to me - I'm guessing because the other two boxes were on their way, but I expected some sort of acknowledgment of my email at least.

Anyway, like I said, minor quibble. I'll definitely be back next year. Hard to argue with plants this great.

Positive vorlonken
(8 reviews)
On May 15, 2011, vorlonken Andover, CT wrote:

I've ordered daylilies from Oakes (and paradise garden) more than once. They are alwasy top quality plants that start to thrive shortly after planting. I've been growing daylilies for many years and I think Oakes is my favorite supplier. Other companies that I've bought from, sometimes for less money, just do not stack up when it comes to the quality of the plants.

(5 reviews)
On May 9, 2011, FBSPANKEY2 Fort Benton, MT wrote:

2nd. year order and as last year i am pleased. i'm new to growing flowers and daylilies, i e-mailed the company to have a dormant collection. thus next year i hope to report on my dormant collection.

Positive cjscar
(1 review)
On May 5, 2011, cjscar Melrose, MA wrote:

I have been buying daylilies for 40 years, on line and in person from growers and I have never seen any healthier plants than those recieved from Oakes. What a pleasure.

Positive 110gardener
(2 reviews)
On May 5, 2011, 110gardener Riverton, NJ wrote:

We have ordered from this company for the past two years and have always gotten large, healthy plants. The selection is outstanding and customer service, when we have called to make changes to order, has been great. The prices are reasonable and the bonus plants and free shipping for orders over $100 are all a plus. Highly recommended.

Positive Rania05
(2 reviews)
On May 4, 2011, Rania05 Voorhees, NJ wrote:

I ordered 50 mixed daylilies , to my surprise I received 60 healthy plants. The plants were moist upon arrival and well packaged. Another good experience with Oakes daylilies.

Positive Doug_Prince
(3 reviews)
On Apr 22, 2011, Doug_Prince Alexandria, VA wrote:

Ordered three clumps each of "Bertie Ferris" and "Leprechaun's Wealth." Clumps were surprisingly large, and I received an extra one as well. I plated them two weeks ago and they seem to be doing well.

Positive Melerica
(1 review)
On Apr 21, 2011, Melerica Corpus Christi, TX wrote:

As a new gardener I researched the best mail order company to buy a few daylilies. Read good reviews about Oakes. Ordered 2 varieties and $60plus later, plus my free bonus lily I anxiously waited for my order. They came well packaged and wonderful full root system. Very very healthy plants. Accompanied was a beautiful print catalog ( which I have decided will be great night time perusing material). Over all very very satisfied. I will do business with them again. Next time I think I'll try a sampler pack.

Positive JoyceBinAtlanta
(1 review)
On Mar 30, 2011, JoyceBinAtlanta Alpharetta, GA (Zone 8a) wrote:

Generosity is an understatement for this company. This was my second large order and everything was packed perfectly and arrived looking healthy and well developed. My first order is now mature, and those plants have become quite large in the few years since being planted. Would love to say it is all because of my skills as a gardener, but I know better. How plants are started makes all the difference, and Oakes really knows how to grow daylilies. One thing I appreciate in their catalog is the descriptions of the flower colors by others who have grown the plant. I look for comments from someone in my climate or State because pictures are usually brighter than reality. The hardest thing with Oakes is deciding what to order.

Positive clement4
(2 reviews)
On Mar 21, 2011, clement4 Rocky Face, GA wrote:

Outstanding customer service. Included a bonus Stella D'Oro to my order and plants arrived healthy and ready to go.

Positive bsharf
(8 reviews)
On Mar 1, 2011, bsharf Palm Coast, FL (Zone 9a) wrote:

Big beautiful clumps: they have been in the ground for 3 days and are already twice as tall as when received. They have a great selection of semi-evergreen and evergreen foliage daylilies for the Southern garden. Daylilies in all price ranges and are generous in sending bonus plants. I order from Oakes every year.

(4 reviews)
On Feb 24, 2011, BUTTONS_MAMA Mobile, AL wrote:

Posted on May 12, 2009, updated February 24, 2011
I have ordered several times from Oakes and they are always very helpful on the phone and I receive my orders promptly. The fans that I receive are huge and if ordered early enough all bloom the first year. I highly recommend them!

On February 24th, 2011, BUTTONS_MAMA added the following:

I love Oakes Daylilies. I just ordered more daylilies yesterday. I am so addicted to them now, thanks to Oakes.
You really can't go wrong ordering from this company.
I can't wait for daylilies to arrive in a couple of weeks!
Positive BlossumGirl
(3 reviews)
On Feb 14, 2011, BlossumGirl Arroyo Hondo, NM wrote:

I have placed several orders with Oakes Daylilies; the plants are large and healthy. I have received many positive comments on the flowers.
Taos, NM

Positive pointgarden
(2 reviews)
On Feb 13, 2011, pointgarden Newport, RI wrote:

Good quality,good service,but very pricey.

Positive NoAlaGarden
(2 reviews)
On Oct 15, 2010, NoAlaGarden Hanceville, AL wrote:

All my daylillies arrived quickly and in great condition. True to what they say on the site they were all good sized and have really done well. I can't wait to see what they look like next year! The bonus plants were great also.

Positive BekahC
(2 reviews)
On Aug 12, 2010, BekahC Louisville, KY wrote:

I bought from Oakes Daylily And spent more then I normally would when trying out a company for the first time. I was not sure as to what to expect since I had never bought live plants through the mail before.

I was pleasantly surprised at not only the size and shape of the plant. But The fans looked a lot better (health wise) then if I bought from a green house or Garden center. They were very generous in size. Very well packed and tagged.

The Bonus was a huge Surprise in it's self. I knew they often sent Bonus plants and Thought It would be one of the cheaper varieties . But It was not only a higher price daylily, It was also a Double!

I raise Daylilies and can say The Oakes Daylily company will have my business for years to come.

Positive kfoye
(5 reviews)
On Jul 30, 2010, kfoye Bismarck, ND wrote:

I've always been very pleased with both the products and the service from Oakes Daylilies. The plants they send are always healthy and have enough fans that I have always been able to separate them into at least two plants and sometimes even three. Yes, I have to wait a little longer for blooms by dividing them down that much, but it brings the costs down significantly.

Positive kentstar
(39 reviews)
On Jul 10, 2010, kentstar Ravenna, OH (Zone 5b) wrote:

Posted on May 14, 2010, updated July 10, 2010
Posted on April 11, 2009, updated May 14, 2010
Received my two daylilies yesterday, bahama butterscotch and bertie ferris. I even got a bonus daylily which I wasn't expecting! Carefree peach. All were very healthy looking, with huge root systems already! I will definitely order from them again! (If I can find room for more lol)


On May 14th, 2010, kentstar added the following:

Told you I could find room for more lol! I just received my two Dream Blue daylilies, and a Prairie Blue Eyes as a Bonus plant. Huge divisions, Thankyou!
On July 10th, 2010, kentstar added the following:

Just received my 3 Bertie Ferris and one Carefree Peach daylilies. They look great and are soaking now. Thankyou again!
Neutral emart
(3 reviews)
On Jun 30, 2010, emart Souderton, PA wrote:

I was excited to get my daylillies, and plant them. I agree, they are a wonderful size at shipment. However, they just haven't grown as big as I expected, and as big as the catalog states. I know they have only been in the ground for 2 months, so I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt, which is why I am rating "neutral". I also ordered from Bluestone Perennials, and that daylilly has bloomed before the Oakes, and even though it was much much smaller at shipment, it is now taller than the Oakes ones. Hopefully with a full growing season, next spring will bring better results. Yes, I have been watering, they are in full sun, and I have used a fertilizer on them. Pandora's box bloomed yesterday, but I have yet to see scapes come up from the other 2. Hopefully I will see results soon, or at least have the greens grow taller!

Negative Jlmyers72
(4 reviews)
On Jun 15, 2010, Jlmyers72 Commerce Township, MI wrote:

I am writing this with a heavy heart as I really wanted to like this company from all of the great reviews I saw on here. Sad to say, but the plants I got from them were not all that great. I ordered 50 of the mixed, 6 Over there's, 3 Stella's. They did give me a few bonus plants. I planted them all this April. I followed the directions and soaked them for 4 hours before planting. And fertilized after 2 weeks. Harldy anything has even really grew let alone look like they are going to flower. The Over Theres are getting buds on them now, but the Stells O'Doro I bought were PUNY! Each plant was about the size of a 1/2 dollar in diameter. There was hardly any plant at all and no way are they going to bloom this year. Other than the Over There's I don't think any of the plants are going to bloom. These have all been platned in full sun. For the price I paid, I'll go back to Blue Stone. They charge about the same price for the same sized plants (if not bigger) and they come potted. I just don't think this company is really all that great for what you get. My Daylilies I bought from Bluestone last year are HUGE this year and they bloomed really well the first year I planted them.

On Jun 15, 2010, Oakes Daylilies responded with:

"On Jun 15, 2010 3:50 PM, Oakes Daylilies responded with:

Obviously, I am very disappointed to hear that you haven't been pleased with your daylilies. We try very hard to ship excellent plant material, because we want our customers to be thrilled with the plants they receive from us and how they perform. In fact, we guarantee that our customers will be completely satisfied with the plants we send. If you would care to give us a call (800-532-9545), we would be glad to see what we can do to make you happy, whether that means reshipping the whole order or even a full refund.
Best regards, Ken Oakes"

Positive woods787
(4 reviews)
On Jun 9, 2010, woods787 East Aurora, NY (Zone 5a) wrote:

I was looking for a clematis called Sweet Autumn, mine died, so I Googled it. Up came Paradise Gardens and the plant I was looking for so I ordered it. When it arrived I couldn't believe the size of the plant, its health, and the great way they packed it for shipping so it would not arrive broken. I can't praise them enough for the quality of their plants, the fast shipping, and how they kept me apprised of my order. To add to it they also sent me a free plant, a daylily called Red Volunteer which from its picture will be just a beautiful addition to my other daylilies. Needless to say this plant was also quite a good size. I was a first time customer who is now a steady one of theirs. Great people.

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