219 genes make the difference

szarvas, Hungary

And this flower the double Blue Kikyosaki?

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Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

It is probably the same kind of genes as the ones that turn the reproductive parts into extra petals. dp

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Dany,we are cross posting but true the shape of the flower is round and kikyo but the the genes that cause the doubling looks like it is doing the same thing to both flowers. Btw, the kikyo is recessive to the round. If you cross a round flower with a kikyo the F1 comes out round but in the F2 the kikyo can reappear as the genes re combine in the seeds. I saw that for myself. Karen

szarvas, Hungary

Karen, what do you think of Japanese pdf that describes the emergence of a mutation through transposon.
It is different from a crossing - in what?

In fact comes in the game in both cases the gene " pt " that has transformed one or more stamens in petaloid (flag). In this instance the pistil remains intact but the fertility of the cultivar is slightly reduced (less stamen - therefore less pollen).

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Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Hi Dany,

In the duplicates you see some plants where all of them are fully double and sterile and some where there are both single and doubled flowers of varying degrees of fertility. Those sterile plants have to be maintained through parent lines or they are lost.

Crossing flowers or putting pollen from one kind of flower onto another flower is a verb or action done by a person. The transposon isn`t a cross done by a person so yes it is different.

Karen

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

P.S.

What is a transposon?
A transposon is a nucleotide sequence in a gene that literally "jumps" around from one chromosome to another. Transposons are found in almost all organisms, and their presence in a genome indicates that genetic information is not fixed within the genome.

So people don`t have control over everything do they? This may be why my divided light and dark green leaf streaked or pie sliced white shibori i nils went all solid purple. The gene jumped so my flowers lost the white markings and went all solid. I can only guess what will happen to them next but that is why they are fun to grow.

Karen

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Thanks Dany,for this nice thread and all the findings here. In conclusion, I`m going to post a picture of a flower that appeared out of normal looking morning glories. If I had not been curious and went ahead and grew some of the seeds from the so called "plain looking" flowers I would never have seen this...that`s all I know! And I`m glad I went ahead with the unknown and actually used it to my own advantage!

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Jacksonville, AR(Zone 7b)

Great thread Dany and Karen.

szarvas, Hungary

Karen, I love the word you used: CURIOSITY.
Imagine, early 19 th century, while all fans of MG has sought to obtain a new shade of pink or blue, which does not exist yet to see appearing in his seedlings this type of plant.
What dose of curiosity it has to have?
The first mutation by transposon.
I think I would have torn.

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szarvas, Hungary

Cotyledons nearly normal and then THAT

Here is the photo of his face at the moment! LOL
P.S.: as Becky the last year!

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Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

It would be fun to know if the asagao ancients in Japan used any phytochemical or other substance to increase frequency of these mutations, whether mediated through transposons or not.

That picture does resemble the one Becky posted in her thread after she watered her plants with bleach or something similar. Truly a bad hair day for any of us if that happened.



This message was edited Mar 5, 2010 1:44 PM

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

LOL!!! :)

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

LOL! Good screaming photo, Dany! LOL! Yes! It resembles the same emotion I had last year!

I have grown out a lot of different cultivars and many F1, F2, and this year will be F3.

One thing that I have noticed is that the longer the plant survives during a season, the more it is fertilized with a bloom fertilizer, then the more mutant flowers I get. I think the Japanese do the same thing. That very thing happened on the Diluted Fuji no Muraski. That vine was already a mutant and with the added bloom fertilizer, it changed dramatically over the course of it's life cycle. The downside was no seeds. :-( Which also seems to be an issue with those rare Japanese mutant blooming vines. Low seed production making them rare vines.

I don't think you can predict the outcome of each grow-out. I think the gene pool is so diverse that you may get a percent of the vines showing different blooms than the parents. But that is what makes growing MGs so fascinating to me ... the element of surprise! ;-)

This message was edited Mar 5, 2010 3:43 PM

Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

Does that observation have impact on the way you will use the chemical fertilizer, Becky?

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Joseph - Not really. I would be fertilizing anyway. It's just interesting that the vines with the most complex gene pool will often produce some VERY interesting blooms at the very end of the life-cycle. I believe that is what the Japanese do to create their unusual blooming vines. I don't think they get those unusually shaped blooms any other way. I think it is forced with fertilizer. Nothing else seems to affect the bloom shapes more than the fertilizer.

szarvas, Hungary

Good roots (light soil), a fertilizer with high P and K percentage, so the plants will expressed all their potentiels.soil pH can potentially affect the colors.

Many mutations are due to action of genes on the stamens, pistil or petals as shown in this sketch.
No doubt over the quality of the fertility.
Some genes induced sterility - the stamens and pistil are present but there is no pollen or no ovules.

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szarvas, Hungary

The gene "Shibori" = fine rain - drizzle = e-SP which is best known among Purpurea Ao Murasaki ....

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szarvas, Hungary

This is the same gene found in other plants:

Dahlias ( pics from Todgor )
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2009/09/23/todgor/d1a06d.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2009/10/15/todgor/c8749d.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2009/10/15/todgor/58d9b4.jpg

Zinnia ( pic from Nicole )
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/2010/01/13/LiliMerci/0ad95d.jpg

Long ago, the ancient Japanese (19th century) have already posed the right questions.

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(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Good gosh! I can't believe the photos of the Dahlias and the Zinnias! Those are fabulous! I remember seeing Nicole's Zinnia photo on another thread! Quite amazing! :-)

szarvas, Hungary

It is not fabulous that cock "shibori"?

Here is another gene that you've probably already met.
The gene "pr":
Its effects are seen occasionally on certain cultivars (not all).
A plant from time to time show a flower with a blue mark.

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szarvas, Hungary

A total of 5 genes are associated with this small mutation.

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(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

5 genes for the blue mark. That's surprising! So what happens to those genes in future grow-outs from the seeds of those vines? Do these genes disappear or become more pronounced in future generations (F1, F2, F3 ...)?

szarvas, Hungary

The answer must be there somewhere, but I forgot my access code. ( Strain, DNA ) LOL

http://www.nbrp.jp/report/reportProject.jsp;jsessionid=D497C3D30642E5D33814BD0B57B50DE6.lb1?project=morningGlory
Even if a mutation by transposons, Mendel's laws must be used.

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Jacksonville, AR(Zone 7b)

Dany, the rooster was beautiful dressed in blue and white shibori feathers. I loved it.

szarvas, Hungary

~~~~###~~ Sequence Emotion ~~###~~~~

It's always exciting to see our babies make their first step.
They hesitate seeking a support a guide.
Thew don't speak yet but it's a matter of weeks.
But we are confident, we know that they are ready to face the difficulties ,the challenges of life.
They run to climb!

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szarvas, Hungary

Stop! Stop!
It is not the case for all the MG, thew are about ten cultivars who have in their genome a gene "we" the gene of "GRAVITY I do not know."

They are ideal for basket .

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szarvas, Hungary

This gene was discovered at the end of the war he gave to MG the possibility to grow up without feeling the bear any influence of gravity.

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szarvas, Hungary

They are really Hanging MG .
Q0905 - Q0909 - Q0912 and THE very special Q0671 .

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szarvas, Hungary

I think Minibar Rose - Cameo Elegance - Beni Chidori is a " Bi - " LOL

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szarvas, Hungary

Sometimes some cultivars have foliage very original.

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szarvas, Hungary

Trying to make hanging baskets with "normal" varieties of MG can be done.
With the weight of the branches that will look suspended for a while but soon their climbing nature resume on and you get this. The plant will climb on itself.

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Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

Do you think Leng Leng will be selling this JMG strain in the future, Dany? The nonclimbing strain that is...Is its flower something to drool over? I will have to look at the photographs you posted above more closely to determine that answer.

East Bridgewater, MA


That foliage variation was quite a surprise. Never would have guessed it to be MG.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Dany - I do find the hanging/draping vines very interesting and attractive. Definitely perfect for hanging baskets. The flowers look like most solid colore I. nil blooms. I planted on seed of the two I had, but it has not germinated. In fact, out of 18 seeds ... only 7 have germinated. I know that many of the seeds were older. But I also think the cold weather has played a role in viability of any of those seeds. The ones that germinated were newer seeds from the past year. Anything older hasn't germinated yet and probably won't.

szarvas, Hungary

I think to get a yellow MG, hybridization (transgenic or other) are methods of the past. The future is to take the gene YELLOW of Sunflower or Marigold and paste it into the genome of Ipomoea.
But this is easier said than done. Long ago they would have the blue rose (with the gene of blue delphinium).
The last paragraph of this site is interesting - When does it start?

szarvas, Hungary

The difficulty with roses is that they are tetraploid so there are 4 versions of each gene and when it introduces a single "blue" gene, he is quickly minority and can not do all the job.

Following the introduction of the blue gene from pansy (Agent: delphinidin)it gives a blue purple flower whose color paling with time and the acidity cell converts blue to purple.
As is the case with MG when the flowers getting older in the day.

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Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

I like the presentation of plant flowers in the hanging planter, Dany, is it yours?

Jacksonville, AR(Zone 7b)

I agree with Joseph, love the presentation and the flowers are
gorgeous.

(Debra) Derby, KS(Zone 6a)

I agree with both of the above ..;D

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Dany - Great looking hanging vine! That cultivar is definitely more suited to hanging baskets. Is it an I. nil vine?

Have you seen this webpage? http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/asagao/Yoneda_DB/E/DOCs/future.html

Read the "Breeding by interspecific crossing " short paragraph as you scroll down the page. And I quote, "Thus, in the future we might get a hybrid individual if we could rescue the immature embryo at this stage by in vitro culture. "

And right below that paragraph is this one:

"Gene introduction

As explained in the item on "tissue culture", if we could produce an entire plant from a piece of tissue or a cell, we could bring up a new plant by introducing a gene from another plant. From this point of view, the regeneration system of the immature embryos of Ipomoea nil will be useful for a gene introduction system. A gene introcduction experiment with Ipomoea nil is currently under way. This method may be effective for breeding a yellow flower, for improving flower durability, and so on."

Seems that the days of natural pollination to get a unique and rare vine is now in-vitro fertilization or mixing plant cells to get the desired blooms and plants. I am sure we will be seeing more and more unique and once impossible plants in the future!



This message was edited Mar 12, 2010 1:41 AM

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