CLOSED: Krider's? Purple Martin?

Willis, TX(Zone 8b)

All images shot 3/1/2013 in Galveston, Texas.

Do either of these hawks qualify as Krider's?

Are the other two birds Purple Martins? I know the images are horrible. They are cropped severely and I way underexposed them, but I'm hoping ... ^_^


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Northumberland, United Kingdom(Zone 9a)

Yep to Purple Martin, male in pic #3, female in pic #4

Not sure on separating Krider's from "normal" pale Red-tail, I'll try reading up a bit.


Willis, TX(Zone 8b)

Thanks on the martins. The dark on the male was confusing me, but when I look at the book, it fits perfectly.

Hawk #1 - lack of belly band, faint patagials, and pinkish tail fit the Krider's subspecies description. The head, although not white, is relatively pale and a malar mark appears to be present. All good for Krider's according to my raptor guides.

Hawk #2- this is a juvenile bird that partially fits the description of a Krider's due to the pale head, malar mark, and very whitish tail. Also very distinct wing panels. However, these underside markings are a bit heavy even for a juvenile. Could be an intergrade with an Eastern bird.

Range and season also good for Krider's. I'd call bird #1 Krider's, bird #2 an intergrade.

This message was edited Jun 16, 2013 5:55 PM

This message was edited Jun 16, 2013 5:56 PM

One more thing- the Fuertes subspecies occurs in Texas. Both of these birds could be that variation (I hesitate to use "subspecies" to describe Fuertes). I would need to see the upperside of these birds to make that distinction (Krider's have heavy white mottling above; Fuertes are all dark).

So, after all of that, my final answer is "I'm not positive." Krider's tend to be harsh white beneath and Fuertes a rather buffy wash to the underside. Hard to say from these photos. Sorry.

Willis, TX(Zone 8b)

Wow! Thanks so much for the detailed explanation. I had not even considered Fuertes. I will know next time to try to get photos of the upperside.


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