If I had my way no one would be allowed to post to plant files without 3 photos. 1) the overall plant shape 2) foliage detail 3) flower detail. It is especially important to have a flower photo with plants that are grown for their flowers. An entry for Morning glory names, daylily names, etc are useless without seeing the flower. Other plants, those not grown for flowers or plants without significant flowers, still need to be seen. I have never thought of Plant Files as an encyclodepia for botany majors. I think of plant files as a guide for gardeners, the kind of people who get their hands dirty. We need to see these plants and their parts. Their is enough cyber space dedicated to dry, obscure information on plants---just do a google search and read the .edu entries, boring and generally the useful/ practical information is well hidden in gibberish (a language used by people who don't know what they are talking about).
About your concern of tracking down the source of the information.
You may not be able to find the member who posted ---- they may not reply or they could be long gone. The plant file post are permanent and like all permanent documents they are watched over by people who's main goal is to keep them as they found them. Inaccurate or useless information is maintained with the same vigor as the accurate & practical info.
Good luck with getting things to change. Like any institution (even DG) once a policy is in place a change of policy is unlikely.
Here is a place where change is the only constant....
English Names for Japanese Morning Glories
Can you reply in there? Perhaps you could write something to clarify what a tri color is and what colors are correct for tri colors and state that the entry appears to be an error someone made. That would be helpful for someone brand new to morning glories and keep them from learning it wrong.
Seeing that gave me a strange feeling like "what is wrong with this picture?" and it confused me a little bit.
This message was edited Feb 6, 2007 5:28 PM
I agree that full entries are alot better than bare bones and the bare bone entries may be useless to some people...
but there's another side to this 'tone poem' of a 'story'...
I've found that steps towards full entries are actually better than a complete blank because it actually does help to
get some(!),but definitely not all other people interested in the species...there is certainly no shortage of sites with
people mimicking old outdated information,especially regarding the Morning Glory Family of Plants...
I've had people contact me from several different continents and send me some seeds based only upon the fact that
some of the bare bone entries that I made were one of the few listings of certain rare species where the inquiring person
could actually rather easily communicate with the person who made the entry >in this case me >and I"ve shared those seeds
with other MG enthusiasts >and there are now living plants in our community with photos of the cotyledons starting to fill in the
gaps of the entries...
I fully realize that many people just expect an entry to be just 'full' of landscaping and curb appeal information...
but when it comes to certain truly(!) rare(!) species of MG's...it is this community that will be the people who will be providing
the answers...because the information as it relates to anyone growing these out in a 'home gardening' setiing is simply not
available anywhere else on the web or in any books...
We are in the vanguard with the very rare species...and it is extremely interesting and gratifying for some people...
There will always be the population of people who just want full 'curb appeal' type of information and they will not find any satisfaction or merit to the entries that are being developed...they have no idea how much time and effort is involved with tracking down and acquiring really rare species...nor the pleasure of being one of the very first to get them to sprout and watch them come to life and grow...there are those who neither know about these aspects nor do they care...
I have to say it like it is because I get some people contacting me apparently annoyed that the full information is not ready and waiting for them...and when I take the time to explain the process of what is being done and most especially are >They willing to Help(!)...they're just as quickly >gone(!) off in a 'huff' >after so easily 'tossing off' a few indignant words...
Everybody enjoys their gardening,growing and the gardenweb networking in their own different ways...hopefully we can all try to respect each other for our diversity of appreciation of life...
P.S. - "Just a Box of Rain
I don't know who put it There
Such a long,long time to be Gone
And a Short While to Be There..."
The best way pronounce Japanese words is to learn hiragana and katakana, Kangi if your real clever. Hiragana is the basic form used for all Japanese words, Katagana is used for all foreign words.
For example the word buru, pronounced booroo is written in katakana so is therefore a foreign word, blue.
The actual Japnesse word for blue is aoi and is written in hiragana or kangi. Beware there are many words that sound the
same in Hiragana, for example Hana can mean flower or nose, any ambiguity is therefore removed by using kangi.
Hashi can mean chopsticks, bridge, or a broken edge! I think your getting the picture. There are thousands of these
examples in Japanese and the only way to know true meaning is to read kangi.
I have been studying Japanese for the past three years and still have a very long way to go.
Great thread! If I can contribute in anyway please ask. It will help me to learn too!
This message was edited Jul 5, 2009 11:29 AM
That's interesting, Jon! So good to have you as a consultant!!
I, too, thank you, Jon for your offer to translate for us when you can! :-)
Here is a respond in Japanese
My question was : Do you know something about Ipomoea Tricolor Summer Skies in Japan . Can I buy seeds in Japan ?
When I use Google translater ,I don't understand nothing !
Can you help me in that topic ?
I don't know if Dave's program will accept Japanese language !
Dany If I can find these I will send you a pack! Now I'll try and decipher the google translation, which are often good for a chuckle!
Hi dany, Well the translation seems ok I understand you are trying to cross two mg's. Trying to deal directly with a Japanese seed company will be very difficult for you unless you can speak Japanese. However There may be a way.
First thing you need to know is the Japanese word for morning glory (asagao) by googling this as a keyword it will take you to some Japanese web sites, some of which will be sellers. Use the google translator to translate the web pages and you may find what you're looking for. Tip some sites my have an English option on the menu bar.
Note asagou means morning open and not morning glory, mention ipomoea and you're likely to draw English web pages.
Good luck my friend.
This is a very interesting thread and so informative.
We should start our own data base that has pictures to start then all the technical data with it.
I would be most willing to help out with this by writing an excel program to contain all the information if any of you would like to do this.
I'm new to MG and so therefore have no idea what type of information the data sheet should have but I am very interested in this information. In case ya can't tell I'm an A type person....LOL
Let me know if ya want me to help.
Janet, a database correlating Japanese names of MGs with English (and maybe any other first languages spoken by other MG forum members like German and Hungarian, for instance) would be wonderful, and I would like to see it become another sticky at the beginning of this forum, if we can carry this off. Pajonica and others know more about this than I do, but I can vote for this.
I suspect this might be tricky, at least given that changing context/associated words can change the meaning of some words (do I have that right for Japanese?).
Do we want separate columns for Romaji and Kanji? Other? Pictures? And maybe a column for miscellaneous tidbits and unforeseeables...like the Wikipedia link to the 11th century novel about Prince Genji by court lady Murasaki. The word Murasaki occurs often in some names of JMGs - I think it means purple, but the word carries such a large cultural aspect.
This message was edited Jul 14, 2009 11:06 PM
I would suggest some basics to begin with in the data sheet to then be followed by example: (just a suggestion from someone new to MG so please those who know better, correct me.)
Picture of MG,
Name: (the name would be what those of us in English speaking countries would know it by)
Name: (the name would be in Japanese)
size (if applicable)
and so on with other items of interest.
Janet and Karen - What a great idea!
And thank you Janet for your offer to help with such a spreadsheet! I like how Janet has broken it down by language, name, photo, color, size, etc. What a great reference tool this could be! AWESOME!!!
well, those of you in the know start sending me what you would like to have.
I would like to suggest sending it to my regular e-mail ([email protected]) so I can just pull it from there or should we just start a new thread only for supplying information for this project?
What ya think Becky?
Janet - New thread might be good so that everyone can check data out "before" it is added to the spread sheet to save you constant editing. It's always good to have more than one person's feedback and information. :-)
This sounds like a major challenge for all concerned, but I'm up for giving it a go. Sounds like a very good idea!
I do nave a working knowledge of excel too.
Thanks Jon, for your offer to help as well. Having a translator is always a wonderful plus! :-) :-)
I suggest we let this thread continue to collect feedback for this spreadsheet until tomorrow afternoon and then start the new thread with data. That way more will have time to give suggestions on how and what they would like to see on such a spreadsheet.
Might want to give it more time than that Becky say maybe till Mid week for those who might not be around this weekend.
Jon do you want me to start out with the worksheet or do you want to? I'm more than happy to give it a shot first.
Also, I see the work sheet an ever changing one until we have all the right heading/columns etc to it. Once it is to where everyone is happy with what it has then we can post it here on DG and make updates/changes/correction say once a month so as not to wear out myself or Jon....LOL
How does that sound?
Sounds great, Janet! Again thanks for offering along with Jon to do the work! :-)
Janet, I'm happy for you to put the spread sheet together. Wouldn't dream of stealing your thunder on this one, besides translation is a long laborious process, especially for someone who's not a native speaker.
As all Japanese people can read romanized Japanese, (romanji) I think it's possibly better to use this rather than kanji, hiragana or katagana. This would enable everyone to read Japanese words. What do you think? If some folk wish to view romanised words in Japanese text, I believe there is a Microsoft free tool for the purpose.
This message was edited Jul 5, 2009 1:37 PM
That sounds good to me. I'll look into seeing if there is a Microsoft tool for this, unless you already have it bookmarked....LOL
What version of Excel do you have? I have 2003 so if you have a 2007 you will still be able to view my spreadsheet, however, you will need to save yours in a 2003 version instead of 2007 so that I will be able to open it.
I downloaded the free conversion program that would allow me to open 2007 documents but when the computer crashed I lost it and I've not be able to find the link (or maybe it is that I've not spend enough time on their sight trying to find it again...)
Janet, I'm almost ashamed to tell you that I have a lowly 1997 version of excel. Just shows how long since I worked in the
office. I gave it all up for love and Japan. I'm a guitar teacher now!
Note to sticky, I do really believe that some of the ideas posted in this thread are invaluable for internationalising DG.
In the Japanese language there virtually no expletives, due primarily to the polite nature of the Japanese people themselves. Please allow us the opportunity to make DG truly global. If necessary I am prepared to moderate on any Japanese input into this site.
Joseph - I agree about DG PlantFiles being a great database, and I can see where a language database could be redundant, especially with respect to duplication between the two databases.
But if we make a document that focuses on Japanese/English language and limit data to that, then we'll have a great teaching tool (PlantFiles can always be referred to for the other stuff). Your point is excellent and should help keep this language database pruned of unnecessary data.
A column for the language of genetics? If so, it might be a good idea to maintain the understanding that what we *know* is hypothetical. This would at least give those of us whose knowledge is only partial or flawed a place to start. I would understand if folks would not want to expand a Japanese/English database to include a genetics dimension - just a thought - leave it to me to come up with unnecessary data grrr.
In the past, I've used Excel with the aid of the Help feature, but do not have Excel on this computer. Might there be some kind of database that we could all use? How about Google? Would this be useful - https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=writely&passive=true&continue=http://docs.google.com/<mpl=homepage&nui=1 ?
Pajonica, are you aware of internet sources of free sheet music for classic guitar (and other instruments and styles of music)?
bluespiral Thanks for the thought regarding guitar, I'm actually well aware of most of the useful internet resources in this field, thanks again.
Pajonica, I should have known, you're welcome, anyway.
To anyone else who might be interested, when you search for a composer on Wikipedia, sometimes a webpage about the composer will come up with biography and free sources of his/her music for audio or sheet music. (If you can afford to pay, by all means do so for the sake of the music industry.)
For a jumping-off-point, try this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_T%C3%A1rrega
I believe and correct me if I miss understood, but we (Jon and I) would work on this spreed sheet and then make changes additions, it wasn't going to be a sheet (here again correct me if I'm wrong) that everyone was going to post to.
To help better control the data going in as well as the format it is best to limit those entering the data. Those that had pictures and information were to post them to a new thread when we get it started. This way all information stays consistent.
That is also how I envisioned this endeavor to be controled from erroneous data being entered. This is going to be a wonderful resource for us! :-)
Ok good to know I was thinking on the right track. The only way to make sure data is viable is to control how many enter it.
Becky and who every else she feels has extenstive knowledge about MG will be the powers that know what should go into, I'm just one of the key stroke people.
Jon your offer to assist with the language is so wonderful.
Good thinking, Janet - It was not my intention that everyone could input data.
However, can those without Excel access this database for the purpose of reading it?
Ron_Convolvulaceae dislikes being viewed as an expert, but rather as a continually learning aficionado, and he has so much to contribute to this particular project. If you look at the MG sticky index, you can get an idea of how comprehensive his research is, and how much we have all benefitted from his knowledge. Hopefully, he'll chime in via dmail to Janet and Don - I know he very much appreciates you two undertaking this project.
This message was edited Jul 14, 2009 11:20 PM
This message was edited Jul 16, 2009 8:13 AM
Janet your welcome and I will do my very best, but I'm certainly no expert on MG's
I think excel data can be opened in Microsoft works spread sheet format. I can see some technical problems arising here. May need a computer wiz on board.
Jon - if needed, you and & Janet might check out the DG Computer forum for assistance - that is an extremely helpful group
As we accumlate information we will post updates on a regular basis I was just going to turn the spredsheet into a pdf then there aren't any concerns about having to have excel....
How does that sound to yall?
I'm too big a computer dummy to evaluate what would work best for you two and the forum - hopefully someone more savy will chime in
Janet - Perfect!!! That's exactly what I was going to suggest! A pdf file should work for everyone! :-)