Rose propagation: my method

Palmyra, IL(Zone 5b)

chick grit is ground up oyster shells...diatomaceous earth is powered This is a geological deposit made up of the fossilized skeletons and tests of siliceous marine and fresh water organisms, particularly diatoms and other algae. These skeletons are made of hydrated amorphous silica or opal. When crushed, they break up into tiny pieces of glass'' (so tiny that the material feels like talcum powder). This is easily picked up by the hairy bodies of most Insects. whereupon it scratches through their protective wax layers; and they also absorb some of this material. the result being that the insects lose water rapidly . dry up and die Further protection is provided by the powder's property of repelling many insects. I have some you don't need much so it doesn't stay wet...I use it in the garden it kill bugs on my veggie's it works great.

Moncks Corner, SC(Zone 8b)

ok, ground oyster shells are best. I could use crushed glass, but really oyster shells are the best. Got it. I will be on the hunt for them as soon as the forecasted snow does not come and bury us (it almost never snows here, but they like to scare us anyway).

Thanks alot!!!

Palmyra, IL(Zone 5b)

This place will have grit in the next week or two :-)
I called here they are out right now...but it's on order for next week...call them leave your # and tell them to call you when it comes in.:-)
Eldridge & Son Farm Supply
7825 Cranston Rd
Morehead, KY 40351

(606) 784-5093

Winchester, KY(Zone 6a)

Oh, thanks Jody. I just realized those sources were directed at me. While I'm waiting till spring pruning to start rose cuttings, I think I need to go ahead and pic up some grit for the other things I'm starting; the gnats are driving me crazy! Pashta, any of your local feed or farm supply stores should be able to help you.
Neal.

East Texas, United States(Zone 8a)

yeah, i rarely seed gnats and this year I'm seeing some.

Ellicott City, MD(Zone 7a)

I am so excited that I finally read this thread! Thank you so much for the detailed info! Once I get rid of my fungus knat problem that keeps ocurring, I'm going to give it a shot.
I hate those little buggers.
thanks again,
Nikki

East Texas, United States(Zone 8a)

I ran out of grit while planting some cuttings. To days later when I got some more grit, I used it when planting more cuttings, but deliberately left the previous pot WITHOUT the grit, just to see if I noticed a different.

Yes! on the one that is not covered by grit I noticed a gnat flying around it, while on all the ones with girt, no problem. So am am definitely a pro grit gall now, lol.

Is it too late to add grit to the exposed plant? cuttings look great, I think I see a nubby thingy coming out of one of the stems.

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

You can still add it, but if the nasty knat has already layed eggs in there, some still could show up in that pot.
You can buy BT products, or I've even heard(haven't tried it, yet) that you can use the mosquito dunks and water with the water that you've soaked the dunks in, to kill the knat eggs/larvae...
-T

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

I wanted to re-visit this thread, since I've learned something new. Two things, in fact.

In my new book, Plant Propagation by the American Horticultural Society, It suggests two things that may increase strikes, that I was, until now, unaware of...

1. When you score your cuttings, only score to the cambium, not all the way into the woody section. Scoring too deeply will cause them to rot, instead of root. The cambium is that light lime green layer just under the outer layer, but before you get to the inner white section. This means a very light scoring.

2. Also, if some of you pulled up your cuttings, and saw callus, then upon re-checking saw more callus, and more callus, etc, without them forming roots, this book suggested two possibilities. One, that your cuttings could be in an environment that is too alkaline, or they are getting too much aeration. We have very alkaline water here, so this explains why some might not have rooted for me, even though they had developed a huge callus ball. The book went on to suggest if you get a large knot of callus, with no roots, to pare down the callus ball, and it should encourage the roots to start.

Happy rooting.
-Taylor

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

I use one of those thorn stripper thingies (looks like a giant staple remover). I think it scores only that outer cambium layer, as you noted. Another source I read (can't remember where) suggested that lightly scoring the cambium makes it possible for the living stem to absorb nutrients and water until it develops roots.

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Greenjay-
I'm curious about your "stripper thingy". Do you have a picture of it? It certainly would make things faster for me, If I could use a mechanical tool to do the scoring...
-T

Columbus, OH(Zone 5b)

Taylor,
I picked mine up at Home Depot (or Lowes, can't remember which).
Here is a photo of the type greenjay is talking about.
http://www.web4rb.com/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=kkgp&Product_Code=KKGP-80003

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

Yes, that is exactly what it looks like. I got mine from Charley's Greenhouse, but it is the same item.

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Ah,... thanks, you two.
-T

Myrtle Beach, SC

Yipppeee ! Wooo-hoooo !!! LOL !!! My first attempt yielded 2 (two !!! ) very nicely rooted cuttings of "The Prince", a David Austin deep red-almost black floribunda (maybe?). I am so tickled. I am going to try again with a few different varieties. It was so much fun watching the little leaves and roots begin to show. Cutting the leaves back broke my heart but I did it, lol.

Thanks again for the thread and all the updates and help "SeedPicker_TX and everyone else that added to this thread.. This was a first for me and I just Ioved it :))
God bless, Margo

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Margo-

Yay!
Yay for you!

Doesn't it feel great?. lol...you want to go cut on every rose bush in sight after you get some to root. It really is fun. I'm so glad you tried it, and had success.
-T

Myrtle Beach, SC

YES, it really does ! And what makes me even happier is thinking about that at no point in the future will I look at my Pat Austin, Heritage or Double Delight and find strangely colored roses from the parent graft :)) That just excites me to pieces !! This has been just the most fun and again, thank you, thank you, thank ALL of you :)) God bless, Margo

San Diego, CA(Zone 10b)

oh thankyou seed picker for this informative site. I think I will trty this method.

steph

Champaign, IL(Zone 5a)

OK I JUST FOUND THIS INCREDIBLE THREAD AND IF SEED PICKER IS STILL LISTENING ! THANKS SOOOO MUCH! SOMETHING TO DO IN WINTER...YIPEE!!! IT SHOULD BE PUT IN A PERMANENT REFERENCE PLACE FOR ALL WOULD BE ROSARIANS!
THANKS
TAYA

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

You are welcome, Taya.

I would definitely encourage you to try rooting roses. It can be great fun, and Late summer/Fall is the perfect time of year to try it.

Brigham City, UT(Zone 5b)

Taylor,

There is a nurse at work that brings roses to work and displays all summer long. I have told her for over 6 years that I want some cuttings, this thread has encouraged me to do it NOW. Thank you so much for the thread.

One question, I have hardy hibiscus, do you think I could root them the same way? I really would like to try. Some people want specific colors and I don't know what color they would be from seed.

Thanks for all your work.

This is my peace? It has been very pretty this year but only puts about 6-8 flowers at a time and only about 3 times during the summer. But when it does bloom it is beautiful.

Thumbnail by MyRee
(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Yes! Try some!...why not? They are already snipped. What would you have to lose

Hibiscus are much easier to root than roses. I've even had them root in water in the summertime. Just snip tip growth that is stiff green(not soft, or not woody) and pinch out the floppy top portion of the tip. Leave two leaves on top(after the tip snipping) and strip the rest. Sink several of the bottom nodes(place where the leaves were attached) into the soil. If it is humid, no need to cover, but if it is dry, cover with plastic. Set in indirect sun(north side of house is perfect), and wait a few weeks. Best time to root them is when it is still hot outside, but not over 98 degrees. 80-90 is perfect.

Peace is a lovely rose, but has always been stingy with me, also. It is also very stingy with foliage, too, lol...
-T

Brigham City, UT(Zone 5b)

Taylor, Thanks with a big HUG. Marie

Cedar Springs, MI(Zone 5b)

Terry should make this a sticky.

Scottsdale, AZ(Zone 9b)

I agree.

Champaign, IL(Zone 5a)

how do we alert terry to make this a sticky.
taya
i just refered to it for my fist attempt a rooting roses..

Champaign, IL(Zone 5a)

ok picker... if i take a cutting from my grandiflora rose about face does that mean ill have a stronger plant than a grafted one? ? or is an own root of that type mean it will be MORE tender? everone talks about own root and i dont know why they graft if own roots are stronger?

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

I read a very good article about this, and I agreed with the man, but cannot remember where I read it.

Let me go try to find it... He put it better than I could...
-T

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

...just remembered it was in one of my garden magazines...not the web.

I'll try to say what he said..

He pointed out that there is a growing demand for own root. Especially in colder climates, where roses can heave out of the ground in a freeze, and can also freeze back below the grafting bud union.

When a rose freezes back to below the bud union, the top portion of the rose dies, and the rootstock can remain alive. In Spring the rootstock sprouts and blooms. Now you have the rootstock rose, instead of the one grafted to it, that you wanted. Own-root roses would eliminate this. Even with die back, the rose can return from its root, and still be the same rose.

On the flip side, the benefits of grafting are that you can take a rose that has a diminutive quality(such as one that doesn't do well in a particular climate, or one that doesn't like your soil), and improve it, by grafting it to a rose that does really well in your soil/climate. Now you have a rose that wouldn't normally do well for you, and now it can. Especially if you want a rose that is a slow grower, and you graft to an aggressive root stock, you now have the beautiful (but weak) rose you wanted, but now it is the same rose, with improved vigor.

He pointed out that own root isn't always the best for every situation, nor is the grafted the best for every situation. They all depend on many factors, depending on the particular rose and the intended growing environment. What is good for cold northern climates with a particular soil isn't necessarily good for warm climates, with a different soil.
Each rose would have to be tested both ways, in both climates and conditions, in order to know the very best for every situation, and every different rose. He pointed out this wouldn't be done, and wouldn't be profitable, considering it would be just too much of an undertaking, with all the roses, and all the variables.

He also pointed out that J&P's move to produce own root roses (which they've cleverly, but sort of ironically, called "new generation roses") is basically a bold move away from the industry's current way of doing roses, but is in response to public demand. They ARE a business, so need to provide what will sell, and what is in demand, to remain profitable, and keep up with current trends.

Lastly he pointed out that people are going to find that these own roots have their advantages, as well as disadvantages, just like grafted.

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

...not trying to go in too many directions at once, but wanted to post this while it was fresh on my mind.

Here is a link with another method that has a lot of great photos and great advice. Read his article and view the gallery.
His is a bit more elaborate than a beginner might want to try, but all very helpful information, and he claims to have extremely high success rates.

http://www3.telus.net/georgemander/galleries/own_root.html

I don't claim "my method" is the best, only that it is it what I use. I'm always interested in other people's methods. Especially if there are higher success rates, and new tips to be learned. I like everything he said, except I am still very partial to my coir/sand mix. I also found it interesting that he mentions 80 several times.
Personally, the only time I've had absolutely 100% with an entire batch of cuttings, was much over this temperature...

I welcome anyone else's opinions, or input on this...

Happy rooting!
-Taylor

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

I am interested in the temperature bit. Over 100* was successful? What varieties were you working with?

Champaign, IL(Zone 5a)

picker .. thanks so much im going to try a couple of these and see what happens
t

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Greenjay-
100 percent, not degrees. The time I had several batches, and they all rooted 100 percent was outdoors, and when the summer temps were between 80-95 degrees. Sometimes days were a little warmer than that. Once we get to 98 and 100, the rates drop to nearly nothing rooting at all...

I can't remember everthing I started that particular time, but I know for sure I'd stuck many McCartney rose cuttings. They normally don't root that well, but every single one rooted that time. And, they rooted very quickly. They were ready to be transplanted within weeks...

Sure wish I could duplicate that each time!!

Greenobsessed-I wish you success!!

-T

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

I definitely have found certain varieties root up quicker than others. All mine are at 75* because they are inside under lights. So far Brother Caedfel (DA rose) has the "land speed record" -- 7 days from sticking to show 1" roots. Some of the "found" prairie roses came close -- 10 days. I check them every 48 hours after sticking now, becuase I had some grow their roots together too quickly.

Champaign, IL(Zone 5a)

ok one laaaast question? if i root these things now and say they get rolling .... what do i do with them till spring ?? ithought roses needed a dormant period....i have a big south facing window but i dont think that will keep a rose alive till spring?? just wintering over the tropicals is a trip im always fighting white fly and spider mites???
taya

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

You will want to let them go dormant if they get roots now. colder temps (refrigerator?) will slow them down if you need to keep them longer inside. You will probably have some "indian summer" weeks that you could use to acclimate and plant them between now and end of october.

Jersey Shore, NJ(Zone 7a)

Ohh Noooo, I have question for you. I followed your basic instuctions (couldn't find coir) My cutting was status quo for a month. It suddenly dropped it's leaves. I had left 5 leaves, 4 dropped, but when I tug, it seems firm. Is this something to be expected? And I shouldn't give up on it yet???

Centennial, CO(Zone 5b)

don't give up unless the stem turns black. You will soon see shoots coming out from the stem where the leaves dropped off.

Jersey Shore, NJ(Zone 7a)

Thanks Greenjay. I took a close look in the sun this morning and I see little leaf buds forming :)

(Taylor) Plano, TX(Zone 8a)

Venu-

Sounds like your last cutting it taking. Yay!
The cutting is just "letting go" of the leaves, so it doesn't have to feed them. It is saving its energy for roots.

The uncertainty part is why I like rooting in clear or semi-opaque containers(such as plastic milk jugs). That way you can see if there are roots forming, without disturbing the cutting.

I've disturbed them just to peek, only to find that they did in fact, have roots, but my disturbing them caused them to suddenly die within the week...

If you can resist, it is best to leave it be. Like greenjay said...you'll know if it is not going to make it.

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