today's mail loot

Scottsdale, AZ

Just opened the mail and I've got Jamie Lynn MG and pink spiral MG which I'd be happy to share if someone wants a few. I don't have tons but would be please to send half iif someone wants these colors.


I'm in the address exchange, so send a bubble SASE and the first 3 to respond get seeds. your Dmail gets you to the top of the list.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I would like some Jamie Lynn. I am sending your Gypsy Bride out today. I'm in the address file.

Scottsdale, AZ

you got em

Scottsdale, AZ

I finally found the addresses, going out today.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Thanks! I just realized I sent a MG seed to Arizona! Think I'll get arrested? LOL!

This message was edited Oct 26, 2006 8:44 AM

Jerome, MI(Zone 5b)

Here here..how about me...number two..? let me know...

Smiles..Diana

Scottsdale, AZ

Wannabe, you're #3................. last on the list. Diana, Dmail address and seeds wil go out today. Which do you want or both?

Jerome, MI(Zone 5b)

Both...and thanks..anything I can send you..check my list...here..DG....I am in the address exchange too...

Smiles....and thanks..let me know..if there is anything I have you might want...Datura????? hehehe...

Scottsdale, AZ

Actually, we get all seeds sent here, no probs although living not too far from cotton fields, I do have to be careful about them.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Glad to know I won't be corresponding on the list from the slammer! Does anybody know who Jamie Lynn was? Or the history of this variety?

This message was edited Oct 26, 2006 9:04 AM

Scottsdale, AZ

sorry, closed now.
baolvera
hummerlou
wannabegardener

you three will be getting snail mail

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Jamie Lynn is one of Emmas grandchildren...

pweelee - I sure wish the folks in Arizona,New Mexico and Texas could develop an intererest in collecting,growing and preserving the MG species that are truely native to the US SouthWest...the native species are often smaller flowered,but have a natural wildflower beauty about them...additionally helping those who grow them to learn the finer details about this Family of plants...

The State and University associated Botanic Gardens are great places to photograph living plants during the flowering season and the various State WildFlower organizations often sponsor field expeditions to view and photograph the native plants...join and let them know you want to see all(!) of the species that are truely native to your state...

Here's few links to Desert related Botanic Gardens
http://museum.utep.edu/chih/gardens/gardens.htm
Living Collections
http://www.dbg.org/
http://www.desertmuseum.org/desert/sonora.html
http://www.botanicgardens.org/pageinpage/plantrecords.cfm
Arizona Native Plant Society
http://aznps.org/
New Mexico Native Plant Society
http://npsnm.unm.edu/
http://www.cdri.org/Links/index.html
http://www.americansouthwest.net/new_mexico/living_desert/state_park.html

Arizona State University Herbarium link
http://www.humboldt.edu/~herb/links.html
University of Arizona Herbarium
http://ag.arizona.edu/herbarium/

Getting the basic idea (?!)...

I can post a list of all the MG's that I know of that are native to these states if requested to do so...
there are of course several rare species that occur in the SouthWest that are 'native' to the closely bordering areas of Mexico...
there are many botanists who are of the opinion that the species now labeled as 'non-native' from borderline Mexico should be considered quasi-native because there is ample evidence to show that these species have in fact simply naturally (e.g.,by animal vectors) expanded their natural range to include the SouthWestern States and lower California...species that occur in the borderline areas of Mexico would exhibit the closest similarities to those that occur within the US 'proper' and be the most likely to harmoniously integrate into the biosystem should any plants escape cultivation

MG species from Arid areas are most often slow growing and are not prone to rapid spreading when grown in their natural habitat...many of the species that form the enlarged caudiciform and caudex roots are particularly well suited to the US SouthWestern arid areas...Baja California has rare MG's that are well suited to AZ,NM and Texas...

many species native to the Caribbean have been shown to be transferred by hurricanes and ocean curents to all of the Gulf Coast area States...additionally US states and territories like HI, PR, Virgin Islands, Guam, and the former US Trust Territories of the Pacific Islands and the others where the main language is English and the currency used is the US dollar are excellent sources for rare MG's...


TTY,...

Ron

Lubbock, TX(Zone 7a)

Ron, have you ever found a picture of the Huachuca Mountain MG? I see it mentioned in lots of plant lists, etc, but for some reason the reseachers who find it and write it up don't include pictures with their descriptions.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Hey Perry - There are no photos of living plants of Ipomoea cuneifolia var.cuneifolia on the web...now remember that these native MG's are just ' so invasive' >that nobody can find a living plant to photograph...the reality of the situation is that they are endangered and the inept studies funded by the Feds are very misleading at best...if anyone was to read the actual number of plants located combined with the number of locations it would be a 'stretch of any reasonable imagination' to conclude that these plants are present in safe numbers...and some 'big names' have stooped to maintain 'good relations' with their paycheck sources...

Before you believe any studies...trace where the money funding ultimately originates from...that will provide a very good 'hint' as to what is 'expected' from those who continue to get re-funded...

The numbers of plants have declined from various forms of developement e.g.,power sources,building,agriculture,roads,lumber harvesting and other forms of physical and chemical disruption of the environment...the feds often spray various chemicals to control 'pests' with alarming disregard for the health of the native flora and fauna...

The Feds,States and puppet Universities that have so casually labeled these as invasive and threatening that for at least 9 of the species I listed, none of these entities can even find one(!) living plant to host accurate photos to show what they look like...(!!!)...so,what is wrong with 'this' picture...

Do we need Koko's brain for this 'brainteaser' (?!)...

Koko the Gorilla does very well with the 'what's wrong with this picture' tests...e.g., picks out square wheels on cars,people casually walking tigers on a leash etc...
I bet Koko(!) could understand(!) that something cannot be 'extremely invasive' and almost completely(!) missing in action at the same time...

Other US native species rarely seen include:

Bonamia grandiflora - Florida - a Federally Endangered species - I would like to get some seed and/or plants from private property,which is legal(!) - If I get this plant,it will not become extinct!

Bonamia ovalifolia - Texas...and previously in AZ and NM...(I do know of a very rare strand in Arizona)...BUT DON"T TELL THE FEDS(!!!!)...or they will kill(!) it

Ipomoea capillacea - perennial - US SouthWestern - AZ - "purple morningglory
Ipomoea costellata var.edwardensis - from Edwards Plateau area in Texas
Ipomoea cristulata - "Transpecos morningglory" - this species has leaf lobes that are extremely deeply indented to look like separate lobes AZ and NM also
Ipomoea dumetorum - railway creeper morning glory - Arizona
Ipomoea pubescens -'Silky MG' - corolla - reddish-purple - perennia l- Texas - Trans-Pecos to Arizona and in Mexico.

Ipomoea rupicola - mountain 'Cliff Morning glory'- corolla purple to lavender pink w/a dark center-perennial(!);leaves smooth;Texas,Rio Grande valley,Hidalgo/Duval to Big Bend

Ipomoea shumardiana -'Narrow Leaf MG' - N.American South/SouthWestern morning glory-narrow leaf MG - perennial - KS,OK,TX et al
Ipomoea tenuiloba(syn.I.lemmonii) - 'Spiderleaf MG' - N.American South/SouthWestern perennial morning glory,e.g., NM,TX
Ipomoea ternifolia - Triple-leaf MG - AZ
Ipomoea violacea - sea beach moonvine moonflower - Texas(Jefferson County et al)

Operculina pinnatifida - (synonym Ipomoea pinnatifida) - tanseyleaf lidpod morning glory - native to coastal Texas(Nueces Co.to SouthWest) et al surrounding area The only Operculina native to the US states!


Others that could use some help through home preservation gardens include

Evolvulus arizonicus - Arizona Blue Eyes
Evolvulus nuttallianus - shaggy dwarf morningglory - AZ
Evolvulus sericeus - AZ,NM, TX
Ipomoea barbatisepala - "canyon morningglory" - AZ,NM, TX
Ipomoea cardiophylla - "heartleaf morningglory" - AZ,NM,TX

Ipomoea costellata - 'Crest-rib' morning glory - corolla pale lavender or pink - annual from slender taproot - stems first erect then trailing - AZ,NM,TX(rocky slopes of Trans Pecos),Wyoming

Ipomoea lindheimeri - AZ,NM,TX,NV
Ipomoea longifolia - pink throat MG - AZ
Ipomoea thurberi - AZ
Ipomoea tuboides - (var.tuboides.var.pubescens) Hawaiian moonvine moonflower morning glory - Hawaii
Jacquemontia pringlei - AZ,NM


Perry you'll have to use the herbarium specimen photo for the Ipomoea cuneifolia as living specimens aren't available...note the very particular scalloping to the leaves... ,

I sure do wish that people would take more of an active interest in the native species...

TTY,...

Ron


This message was edited Oct 28, 2006 3:44 AM

Thumbnail by RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Scottsdale, AZ

Ron, once again I'm both blown away with the wealth of information you store and share as well as more than a little daunted by it.I had no idea of the Jamie Lynn story or even who Emma is/was. I picked that one because I liked the color, nothing more but now you have me thinking about possibilities. If you would be so kind as to share the names oif the native southwestern MGs I'll make it a personal quest to locate as many as I can and plant them.

While I want my English country garden and the tortois area, I have one area left that borders the block which I had planned to use for MGs so, why not natives? That sounds like they would be a great deal less work to maintain and I could do something nice at the same time and collect their seeds to pass along.

Thanks again for all the good information. I'll be watching for the rest as the days go by.

Jude

boy it's interesting how this post ended up in the swgardening rather than here ther first tiem I tried to send it, I dont understand it, but anyway.....

Lubbock, TX(Zone 7a)

Jude, it's good to hear of your interest in native MGs. Hope you are successful in getting a start in some of your AZ desert natives. My experience in contacting AZ growers is that most of them show some interest in native MGs, but have very little if any knowledge of them. Maybe if you put out a lot of feelers, who knows what may turn up.

However, it appears that many of these native MGs will be found growing in areas that most city dwellers don't frequent. Hunters, rock hounds, forest rangers, game wardens and other outdoors type people are the ones who get back into the out of the way places where they have survived the encroachment of civilization. Most of the people who go back into these areas may notice wild MGs growing, but don't know or care about what they are. Kinda like one time I was with a Texas farmer and asked him about the ID of a flowering plant growing at the edge his field. His response, "I just call it a WEED". Chances are good that they won't surface in your metropolitan area, but who knows. Never knows when seeds may get deposited by a wayfarin' bird, so be on the lookout.

I live in a city with 200,000+ population. The picture is one of a wild MG, called Texas Bindweed, that showed up in the alley behind my house. The blue blooms are from a domestic MG, but the leaves are wild MG on the fence.



Good luck in getting a start and let us know if you have success.


Perry L. Williams

This message was edited Oct 27, 2006 9:50 AM

Thumbnail by Txwillie
Lubbock, TX(Zone 7a)

Here is a photo of the Texas Bindweed MG one inch bloom. I also have another variety of this Texas Bindweed MG with pink blooms growing on a small acreage plot where I have a lot of native plants growing.

Thumbnail by Txwillie
Scottsdale, AZ

the wild one must be what I had in IL years ago. It choked out absolutely everything I tried to grow so I gave up trying and just let it go wilder and wilder, that is until the township got on my case and said I had to eratocate it. When I tried, failed and tried again and again, finally contacting the Uof I, I was told to set fire to the field. After explaining it wasn;t in a field but in my garden they just said good luck, it was impossible.
I lived with it, keeping it cut back until I moved to FL.

In FL there was one which was a beauty, also wild and choking out everything.

Based on the above, I'm thinking that draught tolerant etc natives may best be planted in containers rather than the ground or I may simply have MGs and nothing else. Am I being silly or realistic Ron?

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I was wondering how many of these wild species propagate by seed? I notice that our Oregon bindweed seems to spread mostly by root system and only occasionally has seed. I am still hoping to get some pink bindweed seed to start next spring. I would like to delve into native varieties, but the Willamette has wet, rich soil and is not a "desert" climate. What types of natives would do well here?
Right now on ebay I see offered Ipomoea:
purga
palmata
luteola
pandurata
sinuata
multifidia
batatas
quamoclit
noctiflora
tuberosa
sloteri
hereacea
ochracea
alba
holubii


This message was edited Oct 27, 2006 9:06 AM

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I found a little information on ipomoea purga, also called Jalapa:


JALAPA, B.P.
JALAP.
Related entry: Kaladana - Scammony - Turpeth
Other tomes

Jalap consists of the dried tubercules of Ipomoea Purga, Hayne (N.O. Convolvulaceae), a climbing plant indigenous to the eastern slopes of the Mexican Andes. It is also official in the U.S.P. The tubercules are collected and then dried in nets over the fire, the larger ones being sliced to facilitate drying. The drug occurs in irregularly, oblong-ovoid, napiform or fusiform roots, from 2.5 to 7.5 centimetres or more in length, the larger roots being cut. Externally they are dark brown, furrowed, and wrinkled, and marked with smaller transverse scars. They are hard and heavy, and break with difficulty, the internal surface being yellowish-grey or dull brown in colour. A transverse section exhibits irregular dark lines, often concentrically arranged, due to the formation of secondary cambium tissue. The taste of the drug is at first sweet, but afterwards acrid and disagreeable. Powdered jalap is characterised by the abundant starch, much of which may be found uninjured by heat; the grains are simple or compound (2 to 4); the former are rounded or ovoid, and measure commonly 8m to 50m in length; droplets of gum-resin are also abundant. Calcium oxalate occurs in rosette crystals; sclerenchymatous cells and portions of pitted vessels may also be found, but sclerenchymatous fibres should not be present. The drug yields about 6 per cent. of ash. The following substitutes for true jalap appear in commerce:—Tampico jalap, the root of I. simulans, Hanbury (more). It may be distinguished by its irregular shape, convoluted surface, and absence of lenticels. It yields about 10 per cent. of resin (tampicin), which is entirely soluble in ether, and is identical with the ether-soluble resin of true jalap (scammonin). Orizaba jalap, also known as male or woody jalap, is the root of I. orizabensis, Ledenois (more). It occurs mostly as transverse slices, 5 to 10 centimetres long, and 1.5 to 2.0 centimetres thick, or portions of slices of large roots, and shows concentric rings from which coarse fibres protrude; smaller roots may be 2.5 centimetres in diameter and 8 to 10 centimetres long. The drug contains about 17 or 18 per cent. of resin (scammonin or orizabin), which is soluble in ether and identical with the ether-soluble resin of jalap. Large quantities of this root are used for the production of the resin (scammony resin), and it should be observed that the term jalapin is frequently applied in Germany to the ether-soluble resin obtained from scammony and jalap, whereas in England it is applied to the ether-insoluble resin of true jalap.

Constituents.—The tubercules contain resin, sugar, and starch, together with protein, calcium oxalate, etc. The resin, which is the most important of these, varies from 5 to 18 per cent., 8 to 12 per cent. being frequently found. When treated with ether a portion only (5 to 20 per cent.) is dissolved; this appears to be identical with the resin obtained from scammony root and from the root of I. orizabensis, and has been designated scammonin (orizabin). Jalapa, U.S.P., should contain not less than 7 per cent. of total resin, of which not more than 15 per cent. should be soluble in ether. The portion (about 90 per cent.) insoluble in ether is properly named jalapin, but has also been termed convolvulin and jalapurgin. Both resins are glucosidal, and can be hydrolysed by boiling with dilute mineral acid, scammonin yielding scammonolic acid and glucose, and jalapin yielding jalapinol (convolvulinolic acid) and glucose. Part of the starch present has been gelatinised by the heat employed in drying the root.

Action and Uses.—Jalap is a powerful purgative, producing copious watery evacuations. In large doses it causes considerable pain, and its preparations should not be used by those suffering from gastric or intestinal inflammation. Its action is due to the alcohol-soluble resins (see Jalapae Resina). Powdered jalap is too bulky for use in pills, and resin of jalap or extract of jalap is more suitable for this purpose. The latter contains both the gum and resin of the crude drug. Jalap appears to act only in the presence of bile, and the addition of soap increases its purgative power. A tincture and a compound tincture are prepared, the latter especially for use in India and the Colonies.

Dose.—3 to 12 decigrams (5 to 20 grains).

Sorry, this may only be interesting to chemists like me...
:)

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Wow! I found a photo of Ipomoea halubii. It's strange looking!

Thumbnail by ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Here are the blooms. I just bought seedlings on ebay, but it seems they grow really slow! Don't expect seeds anytime soon!

Thumbnail by ByndeweedBeth
Scottsdale, AZ


baolvera

Youre not kidding that's strange looking but I like the difference of the leaf mixed in with the others. Nice contrast of shapes.

In the first photo, what is it growing from? It kind of looks like a ball of something and I can't make out what.

Jude

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

It looks like it gets a fat root where it stores its' energy up. The seedlings I purchased do not have the fat root yet, so I doublt they'll bloom until they develop it.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Here is another side shot of the root it developes.

Thumbnail by ByndeweedBeth
(Zone 7a)

For such a huge family, Convolvulaceae seems like it would be an ethnobotanist's treasure trove. I googled Ipomoea violaceae in Ron's post above, and found the following link: http://catbull.com/alamut/Lexikon/Pflanzen/Ipomoea%20violaceae.htm

I don't speak much German, but I think "Andere Namen" means "other names", under which languages of ancient mesoamerican cultures like Maya and Zapotek (Germanized Zapotec?) are referred to. 2 sections down, under "Inhaltsstoffe", the first sentence begins with: "Das hauptalkaloid ist d-Lysergsaeureamid..." which seems to indicate that the main alkaloid may have something to do with Lysergic acid (an infamous hallucinogenic drug).

I find it curious that for such a widely occurring family like the morning glory (of which many species have hallucenogenic properties) that they are not known to have been used like peyote was among the Mayans for pleasure and datura was among shamans of some California Native Americans in their quests for vision. The Native Americans did not write down these practices themselves - what we know about it was written down by western observers. So, to me, whether Native Americans used morning species for their vision quests or not remains an open question. (Incidentally, DH says that peyote is native to Mexico and adjacent countries and did not come to North America until the 19th century)

Many fields of study can converge upon a single flower. Few flowers lend themselves to the magnitude of an interdisciplinary approach like the family convolvulaceae, with its numerous denizens and their respective habitats. So, I don't think a single word in this thread was unnecessary. I may not have understood everything I read here, but isn't this what education should be all about: taking our minds beyond what we already know? Baolvera's post may not directly relate to the chemistry of an ancient, mystic rite, but it's en route - another layer of the miraculous upon the miraculous.

PS -

I don't know much about Native Americans, either - DH has studied them extensively and is my source when I comment about them.

A handy web German-English dictionary is: http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/dings.cgi?lang=en&service=&opterrors=0&optpro=0&query=amid&dlink=self&comment= Plus, since this language often constructs new words by combining lots of smaller words together like a train, sometimes you can translate a word by putting parts of it in the dictionary's search hopper.

Ron, the preservation of MG species through our gardens is a topic I hope continually resurfaces on this forum - not to mention the issue of government agencies' "stewardship" of public lands being anathema to the existence of habitat.

Scottsdale, AZ

I'm still completely blown away by the photo. That's some root! I've never seen anything like that except in FL when I had some sort of vine with the nastiest thorns that strangled out everything in the entire side yard. The men who cut it out had to dig up the entire yard and pulled out things looking like sweet potatoes from another planet. Neighbors told me that leaving even the smallest piece of one of them would mean it would come back, true true true. When it returned, I cut it back to the ground and it came up agaiin in the same spot about twice as thick as the first time. I finally gave up and had a nice screen placed in fron t of that area because there was no was to get rid of it.

Anyway, this root reminds me of that and I'm intrigues.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

pweelee-Jude...The species that I mentioned above that mention Arizona after the brief description are native to Arizona,although you may need to find them wherever you can(!)...

Regarding the type of invasiveness described by yourself and TxWillie...

There are certain species which spread by underground rhizomes and some species which root very easily at the internodes where the vines contact the ground...the species which spread by rhizomes which dive very deeply into the ground are the ones which are very difficult to remove...the species which root at the internodes very easily can also be invasive,but can easily be pulled up out of the ground >as the roots do not dive deep...

The only species mentioned above which spread by shallow underground runners is the Bonamia grandiflora and requires a warm wet climate...Ipomoea tuboides and Ipomoea violacea may also root at the internodes,but will not do this in a dry climate...

All of the species that I mentioned as Native to Arizona do not spread by underground rhizomes,nor do they easily root at the internodes...this being a feature of wet weather beach type plants...

The species that form the very enlarged caudiciform roots often grow slowly and rarely naturally multiply through the roots...

The species mentioned above that are native to Arizona along with the caudiciform type species do not share any(!) of the invasive habits of the species that spread by fast growing deep diving underground rhizomes and if they did...I would have made it a very salient and clear point to share about that aspect...

So,I just wanted to be very clear about that(!)...

Willie - Thanks for your continued support,but I honestly think that the species you have posted is
Convolvulus arvensis
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/34070/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/34071/
>which is native to Europe and not
Convolvulus equitans
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130710/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/663460/
Convolvulus equitans almost always displays a characteristic wavy leaf form along with a multi-lobed shape...


I am very aware of the very invasive qualities of the deep diving underground rhizome spreaders and shared a collection of information here
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/650316/


baolvera - I'll share on the species you listed as found on e-bay

purga - nobody I'm aware of on the trading circuit or as a merchant seed supplier has real Ipomoea purga...some professional researchers have it but they can be very 'finicky' about sharing sometimes > although not always as I have done quite a few trades with botanists from different parts of the world...my position is that if you want something rare (and a person without a botany degree has it and you want it) then you may need to relax from any ' politically correct position ' otherwise accept that we simply will not be sharing...

palmata - an illegitimate epithet and no one has gotten these to produce seedlings
luteola - actually Ipomoea coccinea from Australia
Sunspots - Ipomoea coccinea
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/96716/index.html
pandurata - Gaby does not have Ipomoea pandurata,but if you are referring to another vendor please send me the link for review...
Ipomoea pandurata
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53273/index.html
sinuata - There is no Ipomoea sinuata...it is an outdated name for Merremia dissecta...some vendors don't know and some try to increase sales by using a 'different' albeit incorrect name
Merremia dissecta
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53476/index.html
multifidia - this should be Ipomoea sloteri
sloteri - interesting hybrid
Ipomoea sloteri
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/9611/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/89424/
batatas - seeds are rare,but if they're real I'd check them out...show me the link...
Ipomoea batatas
'Margarita','Carolina Purple','Blackie' ,
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/123419/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/61505/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/80653/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/30183/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/30179/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/87861/
seedling with very darly pigmented otyledons
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/101381/
quamoclit - There is a strain with deeply(!) cut flowers that is outstanding,but I don't see it listed right now
Ipomoea quamoclit
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/128493/
noctiflora - sounds like a misnomer for Ipomoea alba...
alba - the dark seeded strain is more heat and cold hardy
Ipomoea alba - dar seeded strain
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/136688/index.html
tuberosa - Merremia tuberosa usually only flowers in Southern California,Florida and Hawaii...long(!) hot and wet growing season...
Merremia tuberosa
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/69978/
hederacea - there are several shades of blue,purple and a very rare red...
Ipomoea hederacea
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/7763/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/125099/
ochracea - so far only flowers in the same areas as M.tuberosa...the strains from the West Indies may flower sooner than the African Strains...
Ipomoea ochracea
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/93135/
holubii - This is actually Turbina(not Ipomoea) holubii and eventually forms the large caudiciform type root...
Ipomoea holubii - this entry should be removed 'in my honest opinion'...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/131389/
Turbina holubii - my holubii would be entered here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/115609/index.html
There are many species in Convolvulacea that form caudiciform or caudex type roots,but only a handful are available and often difficult to get...
I have some links and photos to others species somewhere on my computer..


Many of the entries in the PlantFiles for Ipomoea coccinea
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/115427/
and Ipomoea hederifolia
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/89582/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/82357/
are incorrect due to the rampant confusion regarding these closely related and closely looking species,but >if the seedpod pedicels do not swell and remain fully erect >the species is Ipomoea hederifolia...

If the seedpod pedicel swells and fully reflexes(like in Ipomoea purpurea) >the species is Ipomoea coccinea

The photos that show plants with what appear to be partially reflexed pedicels look like Ipomoea coccinea to me...

There are hard to distinguish features about the sepals and the pistil and stamens that are additional keys to these 2 different species that are difficult to detect in the usual photos...

Baolvera - what is your exact area of chemical interest and expertise(?)...just wondering...



bluespiral - The Amerindians most certainly used Ipomoea seeds for their divinational properties...

link to Gordon Wasson's book with excerpt from R.E.Schultes on the classification of Ipomoea tricolor
R.E. Scultes mentions a supposed Convolvulaceae expert from the NYBG to support his claim,but it seems that the argument presented that Ipomoea violacea is the older term and therefore correct in this case is not a good argument and I find the statement that the group to be polymorphic and 'therefore' implying that they may 'sort of ' morph into one another to be a dubious argument...apples don't turn into oranges...

I've enjoyed reading some of R.E.Schultes books about 30 years ago when he and William Embodden were considered the top ethnobotanical researchers at the time,but I think that it is unrealistic to expect the rest of the botanical world to simply continue to categorize many subsequent updates,revisions and especially DNA sequencing findings because it may be convenient to R.E.Schultes earlier works and for Gordon Wasson who relied heavily on the botanical classifications supplied by R.E.Schultes at that time in the late 50's/early 60's...they continue to stubbornly insist on the outdated terms,despite very strong evidence to the contrary...if I wanted information on the usage of ethnobotanicals,especially as identified by the 'common native terms' and descriptions > I would look to them,but if I want up to date information on the taxonomy of those same plants, I prefer to look elsewhere...
Although(!),one would think that taxonomists could have applied a more accurate species epithet to the white flowered species that is currently called Ipomoea 'violacea'...which at face value is certainly misleading,but many taxonomic names are full of such 'misnomers'...

http://pages.prodigy.com/GBonline/liquix.htm#Ololiuhqui

Ipomoea violacea in the PlantFiles...scrolldown to the links I have added in the comment section
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/57559/index.html
I have to constantly 'battle' to keep Ipomoea tricolors out of this entry...

I've tried to keep the Convolvulaceae section of the PlantFiles as accurate as possible,but it's a constant uphill struggle...

If I inadvertently skipped any questions please re-direct my attention to the area of interest...

Thanks to Everyone for the intelligent questions whether explicitly posed or implied...


TTY,...


Ron




This message was edited Aug 3, 2009 5:16 AM

Scottsdale, AZ

Ron,
Again you've cleared up the issue for me and others. Thank you. I'm going to plant the MG seeds I already have and get more too. I'm encouraged everytime I read these posts and want more varieties daily.

g'nite all
Jude

(Zone 7a)

Thank you Ron for those references - you really know how to scratch the back of curious minds - LOL

DH's studies have focused more on medicinal (pharmacopia) and divination (esoteric rite where communication with supernatural is sought) cultural practices which in some cases constitute a different approach to Amerindian studies from that of the ethnobotanist.

His sources are from people (like early English traders (early 1700s - Adair), (army officers (late 19th century - Bourke), ethnohistorians ( early 20th - Swanton), and anthropologists (up to present - Jorgensen) who got their information first hand from Native Americans - to name a few.

The plants from these sources are either 1) identified by the Amerindian name for a plant which is often not linked to the Latin name or 2) morning glory species are not listed there.

I will be very interested to see if anything that we can find relative to Schultes' and Embodden's work links any MG species to Amerindian medicinal or divination cultural practices up to the 19th century. (DH says my curiosity is irrelevant because I'm ignoring the continuum of culture...I'm going to spare y'all our trips around THAT mulberry bush)

Mesa, AZ(Zone 9b)

Ron,

if we were to take a road trip to look for seeds or plants, what sorts of terrain would we be more likely to hit paydirt in? Az is a geographical beast of ecologies (did that make sense?) and a big one at that. It's not surprising these plants are obscure, but if we had a general idea of where to look for what, that might be encouraging.

Lynn

Scottsdale, AZ

azreno, I wish I had asked that question. Good thinking on your part. I've been checking the roadsides everywhere I go over the past week checking for likely areas and have come up dry (something new in AZ, dry). I don't just want to head off for parts unknown in search but would if I had a clue about terrain as you asked.

BTW, I DSmailed rr askingif she has any ideas also and will post answers if/when I get them.

Jude

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

I used to have exact locations for all of the rare MG species native to AZ,but that was on my other computer which had a complete hard drive failure...

Daves now has (temporarily?) a limit on the number of daily edits that a person can make to their postsings...I guess that goes along with the main search engine not being available...so the typing mistakes,syntax corrections and added info revisions are not something that I can currently apply the way I'm used to working with these aspects...

I'll post what I can and try to re-compile and condense as possible...

Now is the time to gather seeds >as the seeds are ripe or almost ripe...the leaves on many species are very dissected which enables them to blend in such a way as to almost be invisible...the flowers are often the main feature that allows for visual detection of the plants...

Ipomoea costellata - scroll down to my comments for photo links
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/81860/index.html
There are plants with ripe seedpods right now(!) along the Pine Tree Trail at Aguirre Springs on the east side of the Organ Mts...this is all the information I have now on this species...

Will post more as I locate the location info...

It is often the case that the coordinates in latitude and longitude are available,and having one of those devices that tells you the exact coordinates in latitude and longitude >where you are now and how to get to the coordinates you aspire towards >is a very(!) handy navigational tool...if you have one or can borrow one that will often help out tremendously...

TTY,...

Ron

Scottsdale, AZ

GPS is not on my wish list, I love getting lost and exploring whatever turns up, then following the 'bread crumbs' of memory to get home again.

I have a question which may stand everyones hair on end but I'll ask anyway, because I really need to know.

I've just spent more hours trying to dig up portions of my yard for beds and am considering a different tact now since my progress is sooooooooo slow, plus the chiropractic bills are getting out of hand. Can I use round up or season long by ortho right now, kill the bermuda grass in the area I want to plant later. Let the grass die, cut back to ground level and turn what remains in with the new soil mix? This would result in a somewhat raised area which would be fine, but I'm not sure if the round up would prevent seeds from germinating come spring. I don't know any other way to be able to get the work done without hiring help and that's not in the picture.

Exhaustedly,

Jude

Mesa, AZ(Zone 9b)

Sorry to hear you lost such awesome information but look forward to any info you can provide, Ron, would make for some fun scouting if we can find any relatively close. Would you say a slightly higher elevation than Phx would be a good place to look, like trails in low mountains?

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