1949 seeds

(Ronnie), PA(Zone 6b)

I received my pretty package today. I am going to wait until after Christmas to stat the so they get my full attention.
Thank you Beth for this opportunity.

Melbourne, FL

I'm anxiously waiting for word of any seeds sprouting......

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Not yet...one seed. I checked it and it is plump and if it is alive it will sprout. I give it 10 days...so should be any minute now I hope! I have the rest saved for next spring.

Melbourne, FL

That's great news!!!

Melbourne, FL

Hey Beth, got the seeds today. Thanks so much!!! I'll plant two seeds this weekend and save the others for a second attempt. You were so nice to send out the seeds to all who asked. Hope we all have success!

Melbourne, FL

Two seeds soaking before planting. I notice one is darker than the other.

Thumbnail by gardenpom
Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

I am grieved to report that 1 seed split and was rotten inside. The other 4 are swelling too .. I hope I don't have a repeat.

X

Melbourne, FL

That's too bad. It would sure be nice if we got one or two plants, but with the age of the seeds it does seem highly unlikely. All we can do it try.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Nothing with mine. It looks the same after days and days. My doubt is increasing with the passing of time. I really had doubts any of the 50 plus year old seeds would sprout as Ron mention there is no way of knowing what they have been through. They could have been baked in a hot moving van,exposed to extremes of temperature,some of the seed coats could have tiny cracks from being shaken around or from passage of time that dried them out and what not. I still cling to hope some of them Will sprout!

Lotus seeds are robust and have very thick seed coats and I have read they have sprouted up to 500 years later but the plants had abnormalities.

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

And another one composted itself. Sigh.

X

Melbourne, FL

Sorry to report the two seeds I was pre-soaking before planting fell apart with no visible sign of anything inside. I will go ahead plant the remaining seeds directly in soil, but it looks likely none of these seeds will germinate.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Mine has something in there. What may be lacking is the miracle of life...sad but probably true for this seed. :(

I`m leaving planted for a while anyway. I`m not ready to give up yet. I will keep the seedhull and the pretty little card baolvera sent for memorabilia.

Jackson, SC(Zone 8a)

just got my seeds. and its really too cold right now to even try to start them inside or outside. last night it got down to 31 degrees and rainy. i am thinking of trying it on the tv where its warmer at.

will soak one today in cup of water and one the towel method and see what happens. i only have 5 seeds so want to save one for spring which hopefully it will make it.

so tommorow will update on progress.

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

And another one bites the dust ;-(

X

Robertsdale, AL(Zone 8b)

Beth, any word back from the OSU horticulturist? - Arlan

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Beth, I really look forward to hearing form them. I`d be willing to submit my remaining seeds if they needed them or could use them.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I still have plenty of seeds for OSU, should they get back to me. I am not expecting much until after christmas since the university is shut down over the holidays.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

I`m freaking out here. I checked and I see the seed has broken around the edges and I see little white barely tinged green folds of cotyledon in there!!! I do not see any root so I worry something is amiss here. I`ll keep waiting.

(Ronnie), PA(Zone 6b)

Oh that sounds promising. I will be trying mine after the new year.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

For the record I started another one today. I put a extra heater in the kitchen and plan on keeping it warm night and day.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I am waiting to start mine in the spring. I hope all of you trying don't get discouraged because there may be only a few seeds in the mix that are viable. There is always the possibility that YOU may have that seed.!

Melbourne, FL

I don't care WHO has the viable seed...I just want one to sprout! I will plant the rest of mine maybe tomorrow...I wanted to wait till I got some new potting mix.

Jackson, SC(Zone 8a)

i posted on the prayer forums for Imzadi so that is why you all havent heard from her. she says she knows she was supposed to start these but now with her being laid up it will have to wait. hope this is okay. Jade her friend

Merrimac, WI(Zone 4b)

Jade,

Thanks for posting.

Here is the link to the Prayer Request for imzadi: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/681715/

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

No problem imzadi, some of us are waiting till spring to try these.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

The following is the reply I got as to these 1949 seeds from the government agency. Looks like we are on our own!
Beth






Hello Beth,
The best advice I can give is to nick the seed coat, use a fungicide to treat the seed, and keep them warm until they germinate.
You can reach me at 770 228 7303.
Bob Jarret

------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: [email protected]
Organization: Plant Genetic Resources Conservation Unit
To: [email protected]
Date sent: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Beth Olvera
Priority: normal

Jarret,

I do not have a complete mailing address so I will just file the paperwork unless you want to contact her for an address.

Thanks,
Tiffany

-----------------------------

On 4 Jan 2007 at 10:56, [email protected] wrote:

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date sent: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Beth Olvera
Priority: normal

Letter only.

On 4 Jan 2007 at 9:27, [email protected] wrote:

> Jarret,
>
> I was just checking on the status of this request.
>
> Please let me know how you would like me to proceed and if you
have
> any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Tiffany
>
> -----------------------
>
> On 13 Dec 2006 at 16:09, [email protected] wrote:
>
> From: Self
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Beth Olvera
> Copies to: [email protected]
> Date sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:09:22 -0500
>
> Jarret,
>
> We received this email below forwarded by Maryann Loftus from a
> cooperator asking about "morning glories". I just wanted to pass it
> on for your information since it is your crop. If you correspond with
> the cooperator please cc' me for the files.
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Tiffany
>
> --------------------------
>
> Date sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:32:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: Maryann Loftus
> To: Lee Ann Chalkley
> Subject: question (fwd)
>
> Lee Ann,
>
> Thought you might like to give this one a whirl since you all are the
> site for morning glories.
>
> Maryann
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:24:53 -0600
> From: "Olvera, Beth A"
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: question
>
> I am looking for assistance in sprouting a number of morning glory
> seeds stored since 1949. These seem to be in good shape and
viability
> for these seeds ranges from 50 to 100 years. Is there anyone in the
> college that would be interested in assisting in this endeavor. Due
> to the high mutability and genetic drift of morning glories we may
> "rediscover" heirlooms.
>
> Beth Olvera
>


Dr. Robert L. Jarret
USDA/ARS/SAA
Plant Genetic Resources
1109 Experiment Street
Griffin, GA 30224
Tel: 770/228-7303
FAX: 770/228-7282


------- End of forwarded message ------- Dr. Robert L. Jarret USDA/ARS/SAA Plant Genetic Resources
1109 Experiment Street
Griffin, GA 30224
Tel: 770/228-7303
FAX: 770/228-7282

Lakeland, FL(Zone 9b)

my 2 bit the dust i may take one of my remaining 3 and try to clone

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

I'm down to 1 seed .. doesn't look like its going to do anything ;-(.

X

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

I have nothing resulting and this last seed rehydrated and composted right away while the first one showed an attempt to sprout but was not sucsessful.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Have any of you tried using an anti-fungal like the guy at the government agency suggested?

Melbourne, FL

I think I have some Fungicide....I'll try some before I plant my last ones.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Beth - As mentioned in my first response

"My main concern would be from pre-emergent type of "damping off" seedrot...therefore > useage of long-fibered sphagnum moss and air circulation for prevention(?)...
Damping off preventative soaks can sometimes by slightly phyto-toxic and although the slight amount of phyto-toxicity would ordinarilly not be of much consequence
>in very dormant seeds >it might be...the fungus/slimes may get to the seed(s) before they can germinate and develop immunity and the pre-emergent soaks may also be 'too' toxic for the old seeds..."

Many pathogens reside on the seedcoat but virus, bacterial and fungal pathogens can be pre-existent and reside deep within the seedcoat as well as gaining access by penetration of the moistened swollen seed coats,rotting the seed before or as it attempts to germinate and emerge...Cracked or damaged seeds allows pathogens increased pre-access to the embryonic tissue...
These pathogens particularly the fungi can spread and destroy seeds during cold-stratification and during germination causing the diseases known as seedrot, pre-emergency damping-off and post-emergency damping-off.
The pathogens may be seed-borne,soil-borne,water-borne,air or sail-borne...
The presence of organic debris e.g., dead infested seed,empty seedshells,leaf and stem matter,seed wings,serves as reservoirs for pathogens.
The infected seeds are turned into a rotten mass consisting primarily of fungus and plant substances such as suberin and lignin, which the fungus cannot break down.

The host plant seeds or seedling tissues exudates serve as nutrients and germination mediums that can be cleansed or draw and dissperse the exudates away from the germinating seed will help to prevent pathogenic infection >especially of slow starting or dormant seeds...

Seed can generally be effectively disinfected with a 2 - 5 minute soak in a bleach(sodium hypochlorite) solution diluted 1:10 with water and containing a drop of wetting agent such as dish detergent and I personally would not recommend soaking in dilute clorox for longer than 5 minutes due to increased potential harm to the embryo...the 5 minute soak may not be able to reach pathogens that are deeply imbedded in the seedcoat and/or in the embryonic tissue...therefore a less phyto-toxic anti-fungal like the copper or oxine benzoate would be potentially more useful as a deeper soak and/or as a longer term anti-fungal...
A fungicide that penetrates into all cracks and crevices of the seedcoat and penetrates deeply into the seed to disinfects sprouting germ tissue >killing internal fungus spores besides killing organisms on the surface of the seeds and in the local environment is ideal...


These seed and seedling diseases e.g., seed rot (of the embryo while still encased in the seedcoat),pre-emergent/premergence(before the seedling emerges above the surface) and post-emergent/emergence(after the seedling breaks the surface of the medium) tend to be more problematic in cool soils,. particularly from Pythium ultimum, ...but there are pathogens that prefer warmer soils > so there are no absolutes...


Planting should generally be done when temperatures are favorable for fast plant growth >but there are ambivalent environmental factors when addressing dormant seeds...
Cool and wet may be required to remove certain germination inhibitors...modulating denaturing chemical changes in proteins and fatty acids...

seed coat injury,compacted mediums,poor air circulation and poor drainage > wet soggy conditions contribute to various "damping off" diseases...planting depth,seed age/viability and genetic resistance are all also relevant factors contributing to germination sucess...
shallow planting allows for better aeration...

There are some studies that indicate that the seedcoat modulates the effects of potassium (K) on the germinating embryo...so removal of the seedcoat is not always a good thing,but basically if I see germination >I try to very carefully assist the sprout in removing the seedcoat...


Some of the seed rot and seedling disease pathogens include:


Fusarium sp - mostly seed-borne but also soil-borne seed rot favors cool wet soils - often(but not always) pink tinged - produces zearalenone, vomitoxin et al mycotoxins
Pythium - mostly soil-borne seed rot favors cool wet soils - considered water molds similar to algae with spores that can move on their own (zoospores), swim through moisture often brown to black in color
Phytophthora sp - more active in warm soil.
Diplodia maydis / Stenocarpella et al species - prefers warm moist - tan proceeding to dark brown and black - Diplosporin mycotoxin
Penicillium - favors high temperatures
Rhizoctonia sp -
Gonatobotrys sp -
Phomopsis sp -
Hemiparasitic bacteria -

Helminthosporium sp -
Aspergillus sp - produces aflatoxin
Trichoderma sp -
Bipolaris sp -
Alternaria sp -
Bacteria sp -
Cladosporium -
Mucor -
Rhizopus -
Sphaceloteca -
Macrophomina -

I've used preventative anti-fungal for the initial soak and in all followup hydration applications with excellent results...but all anti-fungals have some phyto-toxic/germination inhibiting qualities...

The copper sulphate and copper octanoate are usually effective against both cool and warm temperature pathogens...the No Damp is also an excellent product...

Here are some reference links...

No Damp (oxine benzoate) carried by many Canadian suppliers,but hard to locate in the US...reported to be more effective for cool environment pathogens...
http://www.veseys.com/ca/en/store/tools/indoorseed/nodamp

http://sci.agr.ca/london/emp/traquairj_e.htm
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cangard/msg0307583421337.html?6


http://www.bonide.com/
Liquid Copper(copper octanoate)
http://longacresfarm.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=845
http://stonebrothers.com/products.php?pid=654&openparent=116
LIQUID FUNGICIDE


BONIDE PRODUCT 811 FUNG LIQ COPPER 4E PT
http://www2.acehardwareoutlet.com/(nlznxq55v2bslg2u4h3l2b55)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=7024375&Source=froogle

PT LIQUI-COP FUNGICIDE
Monterey Lawn & Garden
http://doitbest.com/DoItBest/Main.aspx?PageID=64&sku=727419&memberid=0129&associate=true
GRO-TONE LIQUID COPPER FUNGICIDE


Copper Dust or Spray(Bordo) - 7% copper
http://www.opentip.com/products/Copper_Dust_Or_Spray-518262.html
http://shop.horticultureguy.com/index.php?action=item&id=468
NUTRA SPRAY COPPER BORDEAUX


Rotenone copper dust - 7% copper
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00234200842&DIST_NR=002342
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Docs/ref_products.html#Producer
COPPER-ROTENONE 7-1 DUST
KILCOP DUST N0. 3 (7.42% COPPER FUNGICIDE)
BORDEAUX MIXTURE


Rotenone Dragoon dust
http://www.merrifieldgardencenter.com/products.php?pid=10471&openparent=116
http://www2.acehardwareoutlet.com/(qm40k0apisrnh1bau31j1e45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=7135585&Source=froogle

copper products
http://www.alibaba.com/productsearch/Copper_Sulphate.html
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/pesticides.tcl?edf_substance_id=7440-50-8


toxicity of copper sulphate
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/coppersu.htm

sometimes effective natural alternatives include

compost tea - source of organisms that compete with various post emergent "damping off" type of pathogens > but not as effective as copper for seed rot pre-emergent pathogens

chamomile tea
cinnamon - freshly ground

hardwood ashes - potash/potassium content


No Damp Sphagnum - contains no dirt or peat - my personal favorite for germinating with the best drainage whilst retaining adequate moisture and best allowance of air circulation
http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/77-494-seed-starting-soil/no-damp-off-seed-start-657364.aspx


Hope this helps...

TTY,...

Ron

(Zone 7a)

Ron, your post has got to be the most comprehensive, useful post on germination I have ever seen. Must be quite a metabolic dance going on in those seeds which such a host of bad guys. Thank you. A deer just busted through our fence (This balmy weather has prolonged a great crop of chard that's been taunting it for some time now) - will cross-post this in some other forums later this eve.

Lakeland, FL(Zone 9b)

i have one breaking tho the soil

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

I can`t wait to see how it turns out.

Lakeland, FL(Zone 9b)

i hope it makes it

West Central, WI(Zone 4a)

I've been lurking here and just wanted to let you all know that I am facinated. I've gleaned so much information on seed propagation, while anxiously hoping that some of the seeds will not only germinate but eventually flower.

(Zone 7a)

I wouldn't mind hourly reports, Phicks - momentous news

Robertsdale, AL(Zone 8b)

Paul, do you have a camera capable of some close-ups?! This is exciting! - Arlan

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Paul - We Want To See It(!)...We Want To See It(!)...We Want To See It(!)...
chanted indefinitely until 'radical'(!) closeup pictorial demands are met...

Hi marie(!) - Glad to hear from you...we were all just 'lurkers' at some point...but you may find enjoying these as a passive 'spectator' sport doesn't quite do the trick...remember these are invasive plants that actively 'get into your blood'...for life...it is inevitable...the seed has been planted in your mind...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. - Paul...don't lose any of the historical parts like the 'actual' historical seed casing...

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