Higes,Feathered,SplitPetals,Multipetals and SunriseSerenade

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

The questions related to the types mentioned in the thread subject are manifold but I will attempt to clarify some important aspects by initially sharing my perspective on some terms and posting links to what is currently in the database with some additional l comments on what is visible in the photos...

I hope this will be helpful to those persons interested...

Xeramtheum had asked a question in this posting here
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3279942

I had addressed Sunrise Serenade to some extent previously in this post here
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=1892433

So,now >here we go(!)...


A true double would have double the number of primary petals/ribs...most doubles are actually pseudo-doubles in a strict botanical sense because the number of primary ribbed petals is not doubled,but the material inbetween the ribbed petals is broken up to appear 'as if' doubled...even though Kyushu calls certain genes the genes for doubling...from my point of view this is a 'misnomer' because the main petals have not been doubled,but instead the reproductive parts have lost differentiation as reproductive organs and remained as undifferentiated flaps of petals...

The blue dots or partial stars are on the primary folds which are the inside of the primary ribs...
The petal material without the colored gene for starring are usually composed of what would usually be the connecting material inbetween the primary folds and ribs...

There are MG's with double the number of primary ribbed petals and to my mind these are the real doubles...I've also seen some with more than double the usual 5 primary ribbed petals approaching triple...but these are still extremely rare...haven't even seen any(!) real triples on the Kyushu site...yet...

The shredded would probably be best applied to those where the petals look like they've been shredded into very thin strips...these could be single,pseudo-multiple petals or real multiple petaled...

A split petal would simply be that >a petal that has some degree of splitting...again could be single or multi-petal...

The hige refers to a bearded type and the feathered seems to be analagous or synonymous with a bearded...perhaps the japanese make some physical distinction in appearence between a flower that looks 'bearded' and 'feathered'...possibly related to the size of the pieces of the beard or the location of the fringe-like or frayed tentacles or tassle-like pieces...perhaps a featherduster-like appearence which has the distal end of the petal split into a 'beard-like' apparatus and a feathered might relate to the multiple pieces in a different location or arrangement...

The Sunrise Serenade may produce blooms that are single or double,but since the earliest descriptions describe the petals as nasturtium-like >I tend to think that the blooms that have petals with the thinner nasturtium like bases are more typey for Sunrise Serenade...if you look at the various photos you will see that some petals are just split with the bases the same size as the upper petal,but some petals sport a thin base that makes the petal look just like a nasturtium petal...somewhat shaped like a lollipop...

I realize that viewpoints may differ,but this is what I see represented in the photos of the flowers...


There are dual processes of somewhat opposite polarities at work in that some factors are promoting the splintering into indistinguishable parts and this process being counterbalanced by the force to produce more definitive primary and secondary ribs...these ribs are easier to see when the gene for starring is present to make the primary folds and ribs visibly more discernable...

The multiple petals and ribs are sometimes accompanied by a noteworthy increase in the usual number of sepals...

single - 5 primary folds visible with some splitting between the petals...base of petals same width as the main body of the petal
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130653/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/127325/

single - 5 primary folds visible with some splitting between the petals...base of petals shows a somewhat 'uncontrolled' or random and indistinctive type of narrowing...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130643/

Primary rib still single and easily discernable...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/127326/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/56193/

Primay ribs still visible along with 'debris' like petal material that would ordinarilly form the fusion area of the main petals...some secondary ribbing visibly present...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/56335/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/126526/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130651/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130654/

single - primary rib clearly visible on the outside center of the petal...some splitting beteewn petals visible
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130646/

some doubling and base of petals is narrow and becoming more consistent...petals starting to develop the lollipop look
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/143223/
rear view of nasturtium or lollipop look...petal lower right
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/143222/

some doubling present as there are more than 5 primary ribs...base of most petals is wide
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/92916/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130657/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/89093/

some doubling as per multiple primary ribs seen developing...clear distinction between ribs becoming obscurred and fractured/fractionated...
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/92917/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130649/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/130642/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/126526/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/51172/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/52395/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/52397/


Hopefully this will prove to be of some referential value in understanding these types of bloom structures...

TTY,...

Ron

This message was edited Mar 14, 2007 11:09 PM

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

Thanks Ron, I had been wondering about that, ever since the Messenger MG Saga. The first time I saw the Purple Feathered I thought, "what went wrong?", as I didn't know it actually grew that way.

I wish I could have saved some of the genes from the Messenger MG's.

X

Thumbnail by Xeramtheum
Clatskanie, OR(Zone 9b)

Thanks Ron this was very interesting as always. Found something on ebay you guys might be interested in.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290092506851&fromMakeTrack=true

Hand held digital microscope ! Frank

Lakeland, FL(Zone 9b)

i hope X buys one for me

Mesilla Park, NM

Bumping this up.. good information here.

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

BUMP

Birmingham, United Kingdom

This is excellent, lovely blooms and information! Do they refer to these as doubles or flore pleno? You are truly the king of Assagao!

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