In the Palouse country the Morning Glory came in as a garden flower and now is a bad weed.
The plant will spread in the field in patches and form a mat of about 100' to 200' across, killing the crop. The only way to kill the plant is to do a process called, "Summer Fallow." This is a process where a cultivator is pulled across the field every other week all summer. With diesel going for close to $3 a gallon this becomes expensive.
Needless to say, Morning Glory has a very dark side. I would caution you about growing Morning Glory in an area or part of the country where it could get away and become a weed, because it is nearly impossible to get rid of it once it is established. I don't know whether any of you have tried to get rid of Morning Glory in your garden once it has been established. I noticed some of you on this forum are from Western Oregon, be careful, it can get away.
On the banks of the Palouse.
Distrust of Morning Glory.
That's a good thing to keep in mind, Jack. I think the potential invasiveness of MGs depends on climate, as it doesn't seem to be an issue in zones 7 and above... at least not for I. purpurea. There is a "wild morning glory" that's a dreadful weed around here... it's one of the few things I don't even try to pull anymore, I just hit it with roundup, because it will come back from the smallest bit of root.
That is why I always grow them in pots and never put them in the ground. I usually keep them in the greenhouse but if I do put them outside they are on bricks.
I. cordatotriloba, a pink mg is trying to eat my neighborhood. It swarmed all over my hedgerose last year.
Are you sure you're not talking about bindweed? Calystegia sepium? Looks like a white morning glory? I'm just asking because I have not seen an actual "morning glory" growing wild here in Western Oregon though I have seen them in California.
I have some lovely thorny vines I wage war against twice a year. All I have done is reduce the numbers but they still come back.
The armadillos help control wild morning glories around here by relentlessly digging them up. Someone told me they eat roots but I`m not sure they eat morning glory roots. The tricolor and purpureas can be controled by weedling them out when they are young plants. You rip them out and they are gone for good. The problem is if they get in places where noone is there to weed them and the numbers get out of control.
While the armadillos might serve a purpose for airing the soil and controling some kinds of isects or maybe even weeds they can destroy a garden. I have to use a small wire cage to protect it if I want to grow a heavenly blue on the side fence.
This message was edited Mar 22, 2007 10:48 AM
Jack, I read your comment and know well and fear the same plant. It is a perrenial, the root goes down 20 feet and it is really tough to get rid of. Round up never reaches the bottom of the roots because they are so deep. It is like the Pit Bull of the morning glories. If you don't think you have it around, watch the chain link fences during the cold weather. They turn brown and dead looking, but it is only the top that died. Frank
Beth, I'll bet that bindweed is the one I'm talking about! Ugh. Awful thing. And I don't mean do cast any aspersions on your DG name -- it's just one of my most troublesome weeds here!
That's probably it...it is a relative of the morning glory but it is Calystegia rather than Ipomoea. Bindweed and Morning Glories are like cousins, but not to be confused with the same thing.
I am relatively new to gardening and decided to try Morning Glories this year. I am direct sowing them in the ground. They are some Japanese varieties and some like Scarlet O'Hara, Star of Yelta, and Moonflower. Have I committed the ultimate sin and planted some very invasive vines? I see that the wild versions mentioned above are no-no's. Are all MGs invasive?
gardenpom - Hello! I am so gllad you hopped on here and are sharing your experience growing them. You are just north of me. I see plants I really like but don't always know the full low-down on them. I love my passion vines, but they are thriving and it looks like I am going to have to do some serious pruning soon. I thought maybe the MG vines were similar in growth. Do yours die back in the winter?
What is the difference between the usual MGs and the Japanese varieties?
The Japanese mg take much longer to bloom and produce seeds for next year. Three to four more months to produce seeds. That shouldn't be a problem in Florida. Bear in mind I am saying that from Oregon, and we are still having night time temps down into the 20s. I envy you folks in Florida where you can grow every kind of mg, even the tropicals. Frank
Thanks, Frank! I had no idea. I am trying my hand at several different varieties for the first time. I have a long backyard fence that needs some flowering vines growing on it. So am looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about with MGs. Never grown them before. Florida is great for growing plants ..... sometimes too good. Plants that behave up North grow to be a nightmare down here! And there are soooo many lovely plants that we can't grow here because the summer heat just fries them in Florida. Even in the shade. So I have envy of northern gardens. Often northern gardens are far more lush than you usually see in southern Florida.
Thank you girl for the feed back. I needed it. I am still waiting for the weather to warm up to put plants outside. I am glad you have a long fence in the back yard, that is just perfect for mgs. I hope you have a digital camera with macro and is also an SLR. Then you can really get good close ups. My point and shoot digital, was expensive 10 years ago, but if I get closer than 1.5 feet, the pictures go blurry again. I needed a digital camera with manual focus, so I got a Canon D60. You have the best of both worlds with this puppy.
I hope you will go out and get the rest of us some wonderful pictures of those wild species in Florida, next summer. They make such special new threads for the rest of us, and you might even get some photos to go into the plant files. Remember, If you have a point and shood digital camera, don;t get too close, or it will go blurry again. Frank
lonejack - If you have any photos of the plants that you are referring to please post them...as has already been mentioned...I'd bet you have Convolvulus arvensis,some Calystegia species,Ipomoea cordatotriloba,Ipomoea coccinea or Ipomoea hederacea...much less likely Ipomoea purpurea or Ipomoea nil and probably extremely remote that you have any other of the several thousand species in the Morning Glory Family...if you do >you'd probably make more money from the morning glory seeds than any of the other crops...
Generally speaking to any and all that it may concern...I am more than interested to provide the following
I've been growing various species of Convolvulaceae for over 40 years in the Garden State and my experience is that aside from a very(!) few species > the majority of Morning Glories are not(!) nearly as invasive as the completely unscientific hype would mislead everyone to believe...because it is >Agriculture that is the main culprit perhaps even more so than as 'victim'...
The 'morning glories' that invade fields were not brought in as garden ornamentals,but are most usually brought in by the AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY through seed supplies that are tainted with a very small list of species which have potential to act as unwanted plants in agicultural fields...It is Agricultural practices that are the main cause of over-proliferation NOT gardeners...
Convolvulus arvensis is native to Europe and was brought to this country NOT as an ornamental,but in tainted wheat seed supplies,but it is not as agressive as certain native species within the Calystegia genus...and the FACT of the matter is that California and Oregon are the Calystegia capital of the world...that is to say that as a matter of FACT that there are more species of Calystegia that are truly NATIVE(!) to California,Oregon and the states bordering these coastal states than the entire rest of the world combined...
Agriculture feeds people and the perennial roots of the Calystegia that is a native plant are definitely difficult to remove from these agicultural fields...the plowed agricultural fields are not something that is encountered in Nature...the plowed fields provide an unnatural environment that causes the Calystegia to overproliferate due to the way that the ground is worked and that the absence of the wide variety of plants and animals that are present in truly natural conditions >that provide natural competition and are not present in agricultural fields devoted to growing one type of plant like corn or wheat...
There is no other MG species in the entire world that is as cold hardy and tough to remove as the perennial Calystegia sepium and this plant is native to most of the continental USA...it will naturally outcompete any other species in the MG family...
The native perennial Calystegia is much more resistant to the herbicides than the annual food crops...this causes ever increasing amounts of deadly poisonous herbicides to be used...poisoning the entire environment...
I had previously posted a collection of Calystegia removal information in this link here
Calystegia has been in Oregon before the first human being ever set foot in North America...and Calystegia has not taken over Oregon or any other part of the world due to the natural checks and balances that are found in Nature...when anything e.g.,agricultural fields create unnatural conditions that throw the natural system of checks and balances out of order >then imbalances and over-proliferation caused by the unnatural conditions arise...
Agricultural conditions create an environment that causes(!) the overproliferation and spread of Morning Glories that are potentially 'weedy' into agricultural areas and from(!) these agricultural areas has caused overproliferation into non-agricultural areas...
The Calystegia sepium (and some other closely related Calystegia and Convolvulus species) grow very long and fast above ground vegetative parts>are very(!) cold hardy and will successfully reseed along with having extremely long and deep diving perennial roots that will regenerate from small pieces...these qualities are what separates the very invasive species from species which (experience has shown) in reality have a much lower invasive potential...becaue most MG's are annuals that sprout in a relatively early first flush of seedlings when the weather is warm...there may be some straglers,but relatively few...the roots of the annuals die after the flowering stops...and the tropical seeds and roots do not survive the repeated freezes and rethaws...
So,it is important to stick to the facts when attempting to 'badmouth' all Morning Glories as evil invaders (which is very innaccurate) into the same category as the most invaive species which are the Calystegia which are Native plants of the Western States...if Agricultural conditions causes the overproliferation of these plants then it is a problem caused by agriculture and is NOT caused by the gardeners that enjoy Morning Glories as grown in their gardens...
The sequence of events here is very,very important and is of the essence...although the agricultural industry(!) is not to be expected to own up to it...a thorough search of the relevent botanical literature will yield strikingly different answers than the agricultural propaganda so readily 'swallowed' hook,line and sinker by too many...
The species of MG's that are problematic to farmers in the USA are mostly
A) native plants
and the other species were brought in by
2) the Industry
and some from the cold mountains of Mexico by the American Indians...
I too have a distrust but of propaganda that is based upon 'passing the buck' and not upon the factual historical objective biological sequence of events...
I'm still trying to locate some of these native plants and so far not a single farmer or non-farmer that I've contacted has been able to provide any...
P.S. - There was no way I was not going to say what I said...
This message was edited Mar 23, 2007 7:43 AM
Great history lesson, Ron! I have a great interest in the native Calystegia species of Oregon.
Great information, Ron, thanks! That should clear up any lingering concerns...
I admit, I didn't grow any morning glories the first couple of years that I gardened here because I saw unsubstantiated rumors of their invasive potential -- and we have that wild weed one (probably Calystegia) that I was really battling. But some DGers set me straight and reassured me that my I. purpurea seeds wouldn't try to take over all of creation, so I happily sowed and grew them last year! And now I'm just fascinated by these JMGs....
The concept of what is 'natural' for plants as it relates to geography and to behavior needs to be examined closer than is usually done...the effect that all plants and animals have on the biosystem is very,very complex and many complicated factors are easily overshadowed by short term 'reactionary' type of perspectives...in addition to funding from 'politically correct' sources...and to be politically correct incorporates preclusions severely limiting reasonable thought...
There are definitely MG's that exhibit very aggressive behavior but this puts a damper on the tunnel vision of the 'native purists' usual line of thought...like some of the Calystegia species...the behavior of Merremia peltata which seems to be taking over everthing in it's definite native environment...
Ipomoea indica is now known by state-of-the-art genetic analysis of the oldest fossil pollen to have originated in the Caribbean...and it surely stretches reason to think that this plant which roots extremely easily by stem fragments didn't make it to the Western shores of Mexico and Central America before(!) it spread all over the rest of the world...
Ipomoea indica is known to be a native of Florida,but this fact was met with alot(!) of 'academic' resistance...if it is native to Florida...what about the rest of the Gulf Coast(!) area...and the coast(!) of >not so far away >California(!)...OMG(!)...What will the invasive exotic campaigners in CA do when this finally reaches the light of day...a genuine invasive plant exhibiting genuine invasive qualities in it's native environment...it upsets the applecart of the usual tunnelvision...
Biological patterns that span much longer lengths of time than a few human lifespans should not be distotrted so that those patterns conveniently 'fit' into one or a few human lifespans...but this type of distortion of patterns often takes place...emotions are more primitive than reason...and emotions are a very valid part of who we are >but it is the capacity for discriminating reason that separates humans from the other animals...
I'm a strict vegetarian for health and personal 'spiritual' reasons and I also want to enjoy vegetables that are as free as possible from herbicides and other poisons...trying to maintain a 'weedfree' crop is easily understandable...but how to realistically achieve this 'ideal' without resorting to herbicides or indulging in overly-'convenient' modes of thought regarding 'invasive' plants or animals especially as per 'what is natural'...what is 'obvious' at a certain moment in time doesn't necessarilly portray the longer or larger picture...
There are no perfect answers...
but that shouldn't stop us from trying our best to understand ourselves and the patterns that we see...
All points of view welcome...but how can your thoughts truly be considered your own if your brain is ruled by bio-magnetite and constantly being bombarded with neutrinos(!)...you can't get away from them...much worse than roaches...
A Face in the Crowd...
Ron - Wow! Far more than I wanted to know. I just wanted a simple yes or no as to whether the varieties of MGs such as Scarlet O'Hara, Star of Yelta, Grampa Otis, Moonflower, etc. are invasive in zone 9b in Florida? I really like the looks of these vines and want to plant them in the "ground" next to a long fence with a trellis attached. :-) Yay or nay?
beckygardener - "Far more than I wanted to know. I just wanted a simple yes or no..."
You came to just the right place...the Food for Thought Shopping mall...just the thing to get those synapses synapin'...
nope >no prisoners...you'll get no sympathy here...
although(!) >rumour(!) has it that they have a sympathy forum for MG enthusiasts at the Gardenweb...
This message was edited Mar 23, 2007 7:30 PM
I think what he's saying, Becky, is that there is no simple yes or no, and that to look for or want that rather than grasping the context of the planet is what causes many of our problems.
"More than I wanted to know" shouldn't be a category for any kind of gardening!
That's okay. The global warming will destroy native earth far quicker than me planting an "invasive" MG vine. LOL! But I must admit, the Brazilian Pepper Tree is THE most invasive plant I have ever come across in my area and zone. They appear to serve no purpose other than to spread everywhere killing almost any and all undergrowth and produce berries/seeds that make the birds drunk and crazy! :-) And ..... produce a sap (when cut back) that causes a nasty irritation on human skin. I haven't come across any other plant that rivals this plant on my personal plant thug list. And no! I didn't plant any, they just seem to show up everywhere in my area!
Added to say:
I do care about the environment. But my issues rise from progress and development. Not from gardeners. We have lost thousands of acres of beautiful native Florida for subdivisions that are still sitting empty after a year. Developers over-built and priced the homes out of the local market, so they now sit .... empty. And the irony of it all ..... they are clearing MORE land to do the same. I guess someone sees it as a good investment. In what? I don't know. :-( Sad.
This message was edited Mar 23, 2007 10:41 PM
beckygardener - Florida is alot warmer than Oregon and Ipomoea alba,Ipomoea nil and Ipomoea purpurea became naturalized in Florida a very long time ago...
the Indians that currently live in Central America and South America are known to select for flowers that they think have ornamental value...
the Indians that inhabited Florida most likely also enjoyed the aesthetic value of whatever flowers they encountered...
The species mentioned above will reseed in Florida and unless you are very vigilant about deadheading and/or collecting the seeds...they probably will successfully self-reseed...
The studies funded in part by some big companies showed that the reason for the global warming/destruction of the biosphere wasn't so much emissions from fossil fuels but from termite farts(!)...they did admit(!) that clearing the huge amounts of trees was creating extremely large partially cleared areas that caused the overproliferation of termites and that the amount of methane produced by the termite mounds as a byproduct of cellulose digestion >multiplied by the unprecedented new multi-millions of termite mounds was enough to severely harm the ozone layer...
summerkid - wink(!)...
bluespiral - Shelley was probably in a 'silly' mood when she wrote Frankenstein...(!)...
VERY well put.
I do hope that some of the authorities in Arizona read your information.
Their laws on disallowing Morning Glories into their state are SO out of date.
I bought morning glories from you and other dealers on eBay last year when I lived in California and I smuggled them into Arizona. I will be planting in the next week or so and will raise a national stink if a swat team and black helicopters show up to rip them out! I want my morning glories and no misinformed cotton farmer with political connections is going to stop me!
POWER TO THE MORNING GLORY GROWERS!
NO SEEDS NO PEACE! NO SEEDS NO PEACE!
THE MORNING GLORY GROWERS UNITED SHALL NEVER BE DEFEATED!
Florida in its natural state was an undersaturated ecosystem. Anything that got loose there had very little competition and few predators. Add in massive disturbance, which creates even more opportunities for introduced species and you can see the result. I spent part of my childhood in Florida and thought Brazilian Pepper Trees were an evil menace from Satanís garden. In California, the same tree is an attractive well behaved ornamental with very little potential for causing a problem. This species is the best example I know of for not creating a universal list of banned plants. Given time, something in Florida will decide Pepper Trees and Air Potatoes are good eating, and they will both become minor parts of the landscape.
I had minor allergies, getting hives from cats, that sort of thing, before moving to Florida, but now I will have full-blown asthma for the rest of my life. Seems that the state used to be a haven for people like me but since the introduction of 3 thugs -- that Brazilian thingie, melaleuca (sp?) and a 3rd plant whose name escapes me --- it's the become THE place to go if you want to find out whether you have latent asthma or allergies.
My allergies cleared up when my parents moved me to Florida when I was a child. The plant Iím allergic to wonít grow there. In California, landscapers discovered my nemesis a few years ago and I thought I would have to move back to Florida in order to breathe. Over time, my reaction to this plantís constant pollen production decreased. I havenít seen this plant in Arizona. Arizona used to be a haven for allergy sufferers, but all the allergy sufferers brought their favorite plants with them and made other allergy sufferers miserable. Their fellow allergy sufferers returned the favor and Arizona is no longer a refuge from irritating pollen. You may have to move again. I havenít seen Pepper Trees or Melaleuca (Cajeput) trees in Northern Arizona, but they could grow in the southern part of the state. In Southern California I saw one planting of Cajeput and only occasional Pepper Trees.
Thanks for the great info everyone. I don't have plans to let the MG vines go rampant. Not that they still couldn't, but I plan to keep a watchful eye on them. Does any creature like and eat the seeds of the MG? Everything in my yard puts out seeds, except my sterile yellow shrimp plant. Which ironically is in a pot. The way things are going in my area, there won't be any place left that is a natural environment. There are port-a-johns and bulldozers everywhere. :-(
Do MG vines strangle tree saplings and full grown trees? Let's say a species such as a ........ Brazilian Pepper Tree????
BTW - The most invasive thing here in Florida is asphalt and concrete. And Ron, if termite farts cause global warning, then much of that is also coming from Florida. We all know how much termites LOVE the homes in Florida!!! lol
Oh .... one more question .....
How deep are the roots on the majority of MG varieties? Can voluntary seedlings be easily pulled out?
This message was edited Mar 24, 2007 9:13 AM
Gardeners should be allowed to purchase morning glories. I`m really sure most gardeners practice good culture and will keep the volunteer seedlings pulled out. Yes, the ones that die in winter and have no root that stays in the ground will not come back to swallow up your oak tree and kill it. You can be selective where to plant as well. I love morning glories and find them to be an important part of my garden. Life would be boring without them.
This message was edited Mar 24, 2007 11:33 AM
You don't have to worry AT ALL about planting seeds of Ipomoea purpurea, Ipomoea nil or Ipomoea tricolor and many others that Ron has not already told you are little monsters.
Don't be afraid to plant and enjoy these beautiful Morning Glories.
Yes, the seedlings are VERY easy to pull out. They have shallow roots.
Even the mature MG's that I have listed have shallow roots. You can pull out a Mature MG with no problem if you dare....LOL
Also, they will NOT strangle anything they grow up, so don't be afraid of that either. Heck they won't even hurt your Pepper trees. They do need to twine and will need something to climb up.
You will really be missing out by not enjoying these BEAUTIFUL Morning Glories.
Such as this one that I grew last year of 'Blue Shadows'
You dashed the hopes and dreams of millions of Floridians when you said morning glorys will not strangle Brazilian Pepper Trees!!!
Emma - Thank you so much!
As a newbie gardener, I hear a lot of conflicting info about various plants. I have learned much here on DG. I have room in my yard to do some real planting and I don't want Palm Trees ever again. (I am sooooo over Palms.) We lost the 3 we had during the double whammy of Hurricanes Frances and Jeanne. Thank goodness our 2 beautiful Oak trees survived just fine. I started gardening 2 years ago after that devastating fall and haven't looked back since. So many generous folks here on DG who have shared some truly awesome seeds with me. I garden for butterflies and hummers and joined the Butterfly forum here last October. That forum has helped turn my garden into a butterfly haven. (I'm still trying to attract hummers to my yard.) Which is where I met Cat (TexasPuddyPrint). I saw some of her photos of her morning glories and was blown away. So.... of course I lurked over here on the Morning Glory forum to see what I was missing and got VERY interested. I had NO idea there were so many varieties and colors and patterns of MGs. And I have recently obtained a number of seeds from several generous DGers and have already begun planting some of them. Of which they are coming up!
I have a backyard that I am transforming and I have a long fence run with some trellis I've attached to the fence. I intend to add the various MGs varieties to that back fence. Since MGs don't strangle trees, I am curious to know what you and others think about growing a morning glory or two up the trunk of one of my Oak Trees? There is a garden bed around this tree with purple vining lantana and blue wonder in it. But I'd love to grow some vining plants up the trunk of the tree as well. Would that be safe for my tree to use MGs?
Here's a photo of the tree. You can see the long bed along the back of the fence with plenty of beds for planting seeds in. I've done 5 seed beds and have 2 more empty bed left for seeds. (The other 4 beds are for container ponds because I love water gardening as well. Heck, I love it all! lol)
BTW - In the photo behind my backyard fence you can see ALL the Brazilian Pepper Trees growing in the vacant lot behind me. I am constantly cutting back those trees trying to keep them away from my yard. They grow so fast. I am disappointed that the MGs don't strangle trees. That would have been VERY convenient. lol
This message was edited Mar 24, 2007 4:48 PM
Just wait until you see my pictures this summer...you`ll see I`m not sceeered of morning glories! Just you wait n see. :)
Here's is the short MG list of what I have started growing from seed in this long backyard bed:
Star of Yelta
Giant Moonflower vine and Hyacinth Bean Vine (purple and also white flowers) which I am growing these vines together
Japanese "Akatsuki no Umi"
Japanese "Hatsu Arashi"
Is the Giant Moonflower vine safe to grow in a bed?
MusaRoji and beckygardener ...
Sorry to disappoint you that these harmless Morning Glories won't wipe out your Brazilian Pepper Trees.
Becky, you have plenty of growing room on your fence for a beautiful show this year.
It looks like your Oak tree may get enough sun for Morning Glories by looking at your photos. All you can do is give it a try. Maybe a lower growing type Morning Glory would do best there.
EmmaGrace - Are "dwarf" varieties consider lower growing? Or do they have smaller flowers and/or leaves. I don't know what "dwarf" means in the MG world. If they are not lower growing, could you give me a name of a purple lower growing MG?
Dwarf Varieties are a Creeper or Trailing-Type Morning Glory. They are not a climber-but will climb if they attach to something. They are usually grown as a ground cover, underneath climbing-type MGs, in containers and hanging baskets, or just 'where ever' you want them to grow. The blooms are about 3" to 3 1/2". Some will have variegated foliage and some will not. The SunSmile series is Variegated and the Carol series is not. There are other types of creepers, but I don't have the names of them all in front of me. the most popular is the Sunsmile.
Sunsmile will have a Picotee edge, or slight-picotee edge. There is not 'True' Purple Dwarf that I am aware of, even though I have gotten some before that were from cross-pollination, but they did not grow back True.
Another type of short climbing MG is a Platycodon-Flowered Type that climbs to 5' or 6'.
Here is a photo of one of my Dwarf Creepers from last year that is a Lilac color.