Distrust of Morning Glory.

Melbourne, FL

Becky, my Glories don't usually last the whole summer. They tend to fade away in the hottest part of the year. I usually start a crop in the spring and a new crop for fall.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thanks EmmaGrace for explaining the dwarf varieties of MGs. Sounds like just what I need around my Oak tree. All the photos of your MG are gorgeous. I hope mine bloom at least half as beautiful as yours. I can only hope so!♥

Gardenpom - Oh my! Thanks for your suggestion! It didn't occur to me that the heat would kill them off mid-year. When in the Fall do you usually germinate more MGs? Do yours have time to set seeds?

Does anyone have any information on the Moonflower vines? Are they safe for me to grow in the ground or should they be in a container? Their first leaves are HUGE, though the second leaves seem to be much smaller. The seedlings sprout leaves that are so large that it kind of alarmed me. Should I be alarmed? And are the Moonflowers a species of MG?

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky...
You are STILL afraid of the MGs....lol
Yes, you can plant your Moon Vines safely in the ground, and they are BEAUTIFUL when they begin blooming. I have Hummermoths on mine in the evenings. A treat to watch.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/121958/

Yes, the Moon Vines are related to the MGs. The White, which sounds like what you have is Ipomoea alba.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/893/index.html

There is also another that is a Lavender-Rose color. Blooms are smaller, but they are pretty. This is Ipomoea turbinata.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/30403/

There are also other species that are evening bloomers that are Perennials that would LOVE your Florida climate.

Emma

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

The moonvines within the Ipomoea genus are in the Morning Glory Family of Convolvulaceae...but obviously some of the thousands of species within the MG Family bloom at night...

Ipomoea alba dark seeded form
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/136688/index.html

Ipomoea macrorhiza
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/53206/index.html

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - Those links were fascinating. Does the Moonflower make tubers? Thanks for posting the links info. I didn't even know where to look for the seeds on a MG. Now I know. Very helpful links! :-)

(Zone 7a)

Ron, regarding your post of March 23 @ 7:05 am about invasive MG species spreading piggyback on wheat, another entity just arrived in the US piggyback on a wheat derivative called wheat gluten in pet food that is being blamed for the deaths of thousands of cats and dogs in the last couple of weeks:

(the discussion at that link has been deleted)

This is just for information, and I hope any discussion will be limited to the link I just gave.

This message was edited Apr 28, 2007 12:04 AM

Melbourne, FL

Becky, I have both Morning Glories and Moonflowers that bloomed all winter, since we had no freeze. In fact I have seed pods on both now. The flowering has slowed down, and I have new Glories growing already for spring in another location. I have already had a bloom on one of those. I believe I started the winter MGs in early October. In Florida a lot of annual type flowers grow so fast, the season is a lot shorter.....a lot of flowers don't like the high heat and humidity here.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thanks, gardenpom! That's exactly what I needed to know.

BTW - Do you grow yours each season from your own seed stock? Or do you obtain new seeds elsewhere each time? Just curious as to how true they come from seeds.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

beckygardener - Ipomoea alba and Ipomoea turbinata are usually classified as annuals,but sometimes live on as short lived perennials...

Ipomoea macrorhiza produces perennial tubers...

gardenpom had previously shared with me that she didn't usually collect seeds,but perhaps she has some additional or updated information or perspectives to share...

bluespiral - I read the thread about the petfood and it's very difficult to know what the exact causes are in tainted supplies...who can you really believe(?!)...

Gluten is a component of seeds and it's 'gluey' nature helps to keep the seed 'glued' together...in medical nomenclature gluten may be referred to as gliadin...
some types of gluten(s) are easier to digest than others and this ease of digestion is also closely related to the exact species of animal eating a particular type of gluten...different animals have different GI reactions to any particular types of gluten(s)...
carnivores typically do not digest glutens anywhere near as well as grainivorous animals...
when gluten is not digested fully and properly it causes inflammatory reactions in the intestinal tract and can also initiate anti-gliadin antibodies and is commonly associated with IBD and Crohn's Disease...gluten per se may be unlikely to be the primary cause of any type of 'Sudden Death Syndrome'...although malignant bloat has been associated with the rapid production and expansion of gases that physically distorts the structure of the opening and exits of the stomachs in certain carnivores eating cereal based products >effectively trapping the gases ...air swallowed during eating in conjuction with expansion of cellulose can contribute to the trapped gases in causing the type of expansion that causes the stomach to rupture...

Rat poison can be any number of various chemicals or compounds with different modes of action so any overgeneralizations are not likely to yield much applicable info...

TTY,...

Ron


This message was edited Mar 26, 2007 7:27 AM

Melbourne, FL

I usually let my seeds drop on their own and if they come up, fine. I like trying out seeds I find via catalogs and stores during the year. Most of the time I mix seeds of different colors so it would be difficult saving a certain type or color. If I have something I really love I have saved some seed from it in the past.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

To better understand the pollination of MG seeds, then I assume through natural pollination (such as bees, butterflies, etc.) that there is no guarantee if you grow a variety of MGs. With possibly the exception of night bloomers such as Moonvine as long as there are no other night bloomers around for the moths to cross-pollinate? So if I grow let's say 10-15 varieties of MGs at once, then the likelihood of true seeds from each vine is dashed?

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

beckygardener - I'm going to have to start a thread(at some point) on interspecific hybrids...I searched and I've addressed the subject numerous times,but apparently not enough in one spot...
Here's a link to a post that briefly although accurately addresses the question
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3197741

To recapitulate >different species(!) will NOT naturally hybridize...if you plant different species >the different species will not cross fertilize...but >if you plant cultivars or varieties that are the same species>they can cross fertilize...

If you plant "Grandpa Ott" and "Crimson Rambler" they are both Ipomoea purpurea and can potentially cross fertilize each other...the same applies to cultivars of Ipomoea nil which might be of the same species or Ipomoea tricolor >like "Heavenly Blue" and "Flying Saucers"...but different species will not hybridize...so "Heavenly Blue" will not cross with Ipomoea purpurea or with Ipomoea nil or with Ipomoea alba...

If you want seeds that are definitely true to type then you have to cover at least some of the blooms to try to facilitate selfing and/or do some hand pollination...

This thread has gotten way off topic and I've contributed significantly to the divergence...

Perhaps specialized topics not directly related to the question of invasiveness should be addressed in another thread...

Hope I answered your question(s)...if you still have questions related to crosses and hybrids >it might be best to start a new thread to explore the subject further...

TTY,...

Ron



scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Maybe this thread is played out. Looks like lonejack was a hit and run.

Frederick, MD(Zone 6b)

I do think it's a good question to include in a FAQ, though... the explanation doesn't have to be very involved, just that the "wild morning glory" weed is Calystegia sepium, and that common garden morning glories such as I. purpurea, I. tricolor, and I. nil may reseed themselves from year to year but should not generally be considered invasive. Do I have the gist of it?

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Critterologist - if you want to create any FAQ stickies...I'll contribute...right now I'm trying to get through inventorying my seeds and getting packages made up for people...so I'll be willing to review and make suggestions but doing all of the composing/editing isn't in the cards right at this moment...

The reality is that if the seeds of the cold hardy species get into areas where you cannot control the seedlings they will flourish on there own...and the warmer and more humid the climate...the more the potential for invasiveness...

So the invasiveness is relative to the species,cultivar,the vigilance of the grower... and to the overall environmental conditions..

beckygardener - You asked "Does any creature like and eat the seeds of the MG?"
Yes insects>seed weevils
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/667996/
grainivorous birds(quail,partridges,pheasants) and small mammals(like chipmunks and squirrels)

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - I just have squirrels here that can get into my yard. But I feed them, so they don't bother any of my plants. :-) The Robins that eat the Brazilian Pepper Tree berry is what spreads them all over the place. My fat squirrels prefer the bird seed (dried fruit and nuts) that I add to their squirrel feeder. I don't think the MG seeds would interest them. lol

I don't know what the potential of MGs are to spread here. With all the Brazilian Pepper Trees everywhere, any MGs trying to escape my yard wouldn't get much sun. And the area surrounding my property could technically be considered "wet lands". It floods just beyond the borders of my yard sometimes for weeks before the water is absorbed completely into the ground during hurricanes. Which does have me a bit concerned since that back fence is where I am going to be growing the majority of vines. But that long bed is raised up about 6". So hopefully it's high enough to not get saturated and flooded. Any escape volunteers probably wouldn't survive for very long without full sun in the vacant lots. But then again, the trees would shade them in the hottest part of summer/early fall so who knows. I don't believe it is going to be an issue here. I can walked around about 2-3' behind the fence to monitor the vines. Which I do anyway with all the different vines I grow on the fencing around my entire backyard. I have Passiflora, Coral vine, Honeysuckle, Mexican Flame vine, etc. growing on different sections around my backyard fence. The morning glories will share the back fence with Hyacinth Bean vine. :-) What do you think?

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky,
Yes, MGs will grow easily with Hyacinth Bean Vines.

Emma

Melbourne, FL

Becky, yes mine do set seeds. Here is a pic I took yesterday of a Moonflower seed pod.

Thumbnail by gardenpom
South China, ME(Zone 5a)

Hello, I took have the wild morning glory growing in our fields, they are the white variety but sometimes looks to be a pale pink. I also have planted Scarlet O'Hara, Heavenly Blue and others that are not supposed to be perennials. They are here! Actually it is the seed pods that drop the seeds, and some how they have survived the frigid winters here in Maine and have come back for 3 years now. They cover the fence that surrounds the dog pen and it gives the dogs some shade, so im not complaining. I was just curious if this has happened to anyone else???
I've enclosed a photo of the hardiest's MG.

Thumbnail by pixie62560
Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

pixie62560 - Ipomoea purpurea is known to be one of the definite cold hardy ANNUAL species that can successfully resow itself...although the majority of the seedlings(!) will usually emerge in the first flushes of the warm spring weather...

If the annual seedlings are removed,sufficiently buried or cut below the level of the cotyledons they cannot produce further reproductive growth...

The less cold adapted annual species commonly grown by gardeners include
Ipomoea nil in which the larger flowered types rarely(if ever) survive very cold and damp outside weather conditions
and
Ipomoea tricolor which has seeds that almost never survive freezing wet conditions

The cold hardy annuals are much easier to remove if unwanted than cold hardy perennials because the roots of the perennials will remain alive even if the vegetative tops are removed...

Thanks for your contributions...

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Somehow I missed some of the posts until today.

Thanks Emma and Gardenpom for the info! And the pic is great of the Moonflower seed pod! Photos are so helpful! Thanks for posting all of them!!!

Pixie - The white mg is pretty! Is that the "wild" one?

Ron - So which variety are the cold hardy perennials? Very interesting and helpful info! I'm learning something new everyday about mgs!

South China, ME(Zone 5a)

becky.no the white one is not one of the wild ones. Those are pure white and smaller and are more like weeds. I don't have any up close to the house they are in the 10-15 acres of field out back.

Ron, thank you for clearing that up for me......I was begining to think i had "freak" MG's!! LOL

This message was edited Mar 30, 2007 9:13 PM

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

beckygardener - The list of all possible cold hardy perennial species would be difficult to delineate with precision due to variations in local geo-types,unidentified species and other unknown variables...

What may be more helpful to list the species that are more likely to be invasive in cultivated fields and why which I already addressed partially in the post here...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3311001

The cold hardy perennial that pixie62560 is referring to is in all likelihood Calystegia sepium as entered in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/2890/index.html
or Convolvulus arvensis as entered in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/32093/index.html

These plants are multiplied and spread the most when they encounter unnatural conditions like cultivated fields...

The cold hardy annual species that is most likely to be persistently invasive in fields is Ipomoea hederacea...this is due to the larger seed which is able to sprout from a deeper depth than most annual MG species...

The following listing is not intended to be comprehensive or complete,but is provided as a general reference as to some features of the species...behavior of the plants can vary according to specific strains and different environmental and cultivation conditions...

Cold hardy re-seeders may include the following

Ipomoea barbatisepala - US native annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea cardiophylla - US native annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea coccinea - annual
Ipomoea cordatotriloba - perennial - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea costellata - US native annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea cristulata - US native annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea hederacea - annual - traditionally described as a non-US native,but considered by Prof.DFAustin to be a US native >at least to Arizona
Ipomoea hederifolia - annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea lacunosa - US native annual
Ipomoea leptophylla - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea lindheimeri - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea lobata - annual - exact degree of cold hardiness unknown
Ipomoea longifolia - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea nil - annual - exact degree of cold hardiness variable or unknown
Ipomoea pandurata - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea plummerae - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea pubescens - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea purpurea - annual
Ipomoea rupicola - US native perennial - does not spread by underground rhizomes
Ipomoea sagittata - US native perennial - cold hardy up to zone 8 - spreads by rhizomes
Ipomoea shumardiana - US native perennial - does not spread by rhizomes
Ipomoea sloteri - annual hybrid
Ipomoea tenuiloba - US native perennial - does not spread by rhizomes
Ipomoea ternifolia - US native annual - exact degree of cold hardiness variable/unknown
Ipomoea trifida - annual or perennial - exact degree of cold hardiness variable
Ipomoea triloba - perennial - does not spread by rhizomes
Ipomoea wrightii - annual or perrenial - exact degree of cold hardiness variable
Ipomoea x leucantha - US annual native hybrid exact degree of cold hardiness variable
Jacquemontia tamnifolia - annual
Merremia sibirica - annual


The factors which can make for 'invasiveness' or not are very variable...


Many of the US native plants are unknown in gardening cultivation...and are highly sought for US native gardens as an alternative to enjoying plants that are not considered to be US natives...


Hope this is somewhat helpful...

TTY,...

Ron


This message was edited Mar 30, 2007 11:43 PM

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - Thanks! I was thinking that there was just one or two cultivars that were the cold hardy perennials. I had no idea there were that many that had root systems that "could" survive freezing temps if planted deep enough.

Just curious, what "native" MG varieties could be found in Florida? In all honesty, I have not ever seen any wild MG plants growing in my area over the past 30-40 years. I've been out in many native wooded areas and have never seen any MGs growing wild. I live on the east coast of Florida in the southern central region. With all the Brazilian Pepper Trees spreading here, the under story growth in the woods has changed the native environment. I wonder if it took a toll on the wild MGs that might have been in my area years ago. I do remember as a young child growing up, that I would see MG vines growing in sunny wooded areas when I lived just north of where I am living now, but I haven't seen any further north for years either. It's been 40 some years ago. They were smaller white blooming MGs. And some pale pink ones as well. I remember seeing some growing near railroad tracks. But truly haven't seen any since. :-(

What would be the advantage of cross-pollinating the native wild MGs with other cultivars? Longer lasting vines? Just curious as to all the interest in the native varieties. Thanks for posting all the info above! Most fascinating all these facts about MGs!!! Who would have known! Not I as a newbie gardener! ;-)

Longview, WA(Zone 8b)

Ron and all.
I guess I caused quite a conversation.
I thank you, Ron, for the information on the weed that I was taught was Morning Glory. It sure looks the same as the morning glories I see in the seed catalogs. I will try to get some pictures this summer and post them in this thread.
Thanks for the conversation.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Lonejack -

Here is Calystegia sepium in the PlantFiles
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/2890/index.html
and Convolvulus arvensis
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/32093/index.html

They are a species of Morning Glory with perennial roots that spread rapidly underground...but most Morning Glories do not have spreading underground perennial roots that behave like the very invasive types referenced above

TTY,...

Ron

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