I.coccinea var.aurantia

Link, Sweden(Zone 5b)

Can a couple of seeds found the way to Sweden? I.coccinea var.aurantia They are lovely.

~Sylvia

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Jan- Thanks for the seedpod pedicel photo...as I suspected from looking at the previous photo you posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/budgielover_1196632560_62.jpg
I only saw erect pedicels...

This plant is not an I.coccinea but Ipomoea hederifolia var.aurantia...

You never know for sure until they get grown out...

TTY,...

Ron

Pinellas Park, FL(Zone 9b)

Thamks Ron. I'll change the labels. What is the difference between the two beside the seed pods.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Jan - Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea hederifolia are closely related but genetically different...both originated in the New World although I.hederifolia seems to be the species more commonly found 'naturalized' in the Old World...

Ipomoea coccinea
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/51759/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/96716/
is more common in higher latitudes although I.hederifolia
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/58095/
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104810/
is often very cold hardy...

Ipomoea coccinea was hybridized with Ipomoea quamoclit
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/93/
to produce Ipomoea sloteri
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/662/

There are 'minor' structural and biochemical differences that are mostly of interest to botanists although there seems to be more color variations in the I.hederifolia...

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Absolutely fascinating! This one is most interesting as I didn't know this yellow MG existed! http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104810/

I had no idea that there were so many species and cultivars of the smaller MGs! How cool is that!!! :-) I wonder how they managed to naturalize and cross? Were these natives here or somewhere else in the world that were brought here? Most interesting!

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Becky - Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea hederifolia originated in the New World(North and South America) and spread to the Old World by humans...and since the climate was conducive to the growth of the 2 species they naturalized...
the seeds of these 2 species are used like I.hederacea and I.nil for their purgative effect and they do not contain any hallucinogenic or seriously toxic compounds...

I have do have a link to the seed analysis of these 2 for those who may believe otherwise...

Ipomoea sloteri was intentionally created by a botanist by successfully hybridizing Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea quamoclit after several thousand attempts in the early 1900's...if you scroll down to the comment I added to the I.sloteri entry there is some additional information...

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thank you Ron for the interesting info about the I. coccinea, I. hederifolia, I. quamoclit, and the I. sloteri! I had no idea that these MGs had such a fascinating background and I didn't know that I. sloteri was a man-made creation. What cool MGs, indeed!! Many of the MG vines seem to have a rich history and I find that fitting for such an amazing plant! :-)

Mesilla Park, NM

Oh Jan, that is beautiful.

The plant I had was full and green until a couple of months ago, it sure does not like the cold at all, that was one of the ones that seemed to just die off with the very first cold snap and I don't know why, I brought all the others inside that day. The cardinal climber is still outside and the plant looks horrible, but, the stems are still alive, where the stems on the first plant died. So, I'm either guessing that I moved them from the place they liked and killed it myself, or, it does not like any type of cold environment.

Jan, if you do get any extra seeds, please consider me also. Thank you. This year has been an expierence for me and I think that now I have a better handle and more knowledge regarding some of the species types.. (I hope so anyway).

TKS.
A.

Pinellas Park, FL(Zone 9b)

Thanks. You would have to see it in person to do it justice. I'm lucky enough to have it placed where I can see it from my kitchen window so I get to look at it changing every day.

(Zone 7a)

Since PlantFiles has Ipomoea hederifolia as cold-hardy to zone 5b and I. hederifolia v lutea to zone 4a, might the cold hardiness of Ipomoea aurantiaca be similar?

Or, could PlantFiles have made a mistake about I. hederifolia being that cold hardy? They've got I. hederifolia v luteola 'Sunspots' down as an annual, implying that unlike its siblings, it's as tender as Ipomoea nil.

links -

Ipomoea hederifolia - zone 5b - http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/58095/

Ipomoea hederifolia v luteola 'Sunspots' - annual http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/96716/

Ipomoea hederifolia v lutea - zone 4a http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/104810/

Ipomoea aurantiaca - zone unknown http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/109778/

We have a vine of Ipomoea hederifolia v lutea established in the ground which was directly sown in mid-June - wonderful if it really is cold-hardy here over winter - true?

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

I bet the concept of "cold hardy" can be ambiguous. If the whole plant freezes back, but just the root survives over winter to sprout again in spring that could be called "cold hardy" because it DOES survive. Others might say that since the plant is frost tender it should be considered a tropical. In any case, I would mulch the root area well and hope the roots survive...but you won't know until spring.

(Zone 7a)

Thanks Beth. Yup, I was asking about survival. Since I have more seeds, I'm not going to baby it over the winter. I'd like to see just how winter-hardy it is here. It's on a terraced slope where it gets great drainage, so that might help.

But hopefully whoever made that entry in PlantFiles was not mistaken, and I'd love a confirmation. Spring is soooooooooooooooooooo far away.

scio, oregon, OR(Zone 8a)

Yeah, I'm hoping my indicas make it. I KNOW they can survive in my climate zone but this was the first year I planted them and I suppose they would be the most vulnerable before the roots go down deep and get really established. I brought a truckload of mulch and covered the whole area...wish me luck!

(Zone 7a)

Pushing our zones is going to make this another interesting winter. If my memory is working, KevinTernes did a great thread on Ipomoea indica about how an I. indica he had grown over the summer in something like a whiskey barrel came back in the following spring after wintering under a porch or in something like a crawl space beneath the house. I'll try to find that thread.

I think it was an older name of I. indica that cast a permanent spell over me. Up until 1991, The Washington Post had a columnist named Henry Mitchell whose way with words made any plant snare a reader with a spell never to be broken. Back in the 1980's (I think), he called I. indica the Blue Dawn Flower of the species Pharbitis nil, and the way he rhapsodized over it made any picture totally irrelevant. You can imagine how thrilled I was when Gourd surprised me with some seeds this year.

Anyhoo, Mr. Mitchell was forever trying to push his zone without a greenhouse. After stuffing every window, hallway, breathing space in all the rooms with his tender plants come fall, he would also pack root balls of tender plants - like the Blue Dawn Flower - in pastic garbage bags in the dark in the basement and keep them barrrrrely moist over winter in a state of dormancy. For him, that worked - interesting technique, I thought, for those of us living in small places.

On the November day in 1991 that he died of cancer, Henry was still writing. I wish I could remember his phrasing - something about yellow crocus bashing bricks against which they were growing - hope to the end.

(Zone 7a)

PamSue found the quote by Henry Mitchell about yellow crocuses triumphing over bricks. I do remember reading that he wrote that essay just hours before his death, and that the essay was published posthumously, but this wonderful link honoring Henry Mitchell says differently -

http://home.austin.rr.com/neumeyers/Mitchell_index.html

I know it's possible to garden as if you were precisely following the directions of a computer manual, but for those of us for whom gardening is a voyage on many serendipitous levels of self, planet, the arts & humanities, science, politics, religion, etc., his books and essays are for you. Yes, the subject is gardening, and he talks about gardening, and you'll be a better gardener for reading him, but I love the way he weaves various subtexts in between the lines and arrives at the Ahah! at the end.

Karen

ps - Henry was better at sticking to the subject than I am - Beth, I wish you lots of luck getting the Blue Dawn Flower to return in the spring.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

The zone hardiness is very often in direct relation to how long the strain has been acclimated to a particular climatic environment...e.g., a strain of Ipomoea hederifolia that has been growing in zone 10 for many generations is not very likely going to be immediately 'cold hardy' in a zone 5...

The length of seasonal time that a plant continues to flower and/or retain leaves may not be related to the cold/winter hardiness of any seeds produced...


Ipomoea coccinea and Ipomoea hederifolia are officially classified as annuals,although in some rare situations they may behave as short-lived perennials...

It is important to keep in mind(when entering information into the PF's) as to whether the plant is a true perennial >with a perennial root or if the plant simply self re-sows causing some to enter the plant mistakenly as a true perennial...

The zone hardiness is in direct relation to how long the strain has been acclimated to a particular climatic environment...e.g., a strain of Ipomoea hederifolia that has been growing in zone 10 for many generations is not very likely going to be immediately cold hardy in a zone 5...


Cold hardiness information entered into the PlantFiles may be 'hearsay' and not reflect the 1st hand experience of the person who posted the information...

Ipomoea aurantiaca entry in the PlantFiles
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/109778/
Please scroll down to the photo links that I added to the commentary of the main page and you will see that this
http://www.cs.umb.edu/~whaber/Monte/Plant/Conv/img/Ipom-aura-fl-839-b.JPG
http://www.cs.umb.edu/~whaber/Monte/Plant/Conv/img/Ipom-aura-fl-164-112.jpg
is Ipomoea aurantiaca

Ipomoea aurantica is a very rare and completely different species (which is not closely related to or) to be confused with any type of either Ipomoea coccinea or Ipomoea hederifolia...

Here is Ipomoea hederifolia (Aurantia)
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/166450/
where I have used the term 'Aurantia' to distinguish the strain having the unusual orange or coral corollas,but I have intentionally refrained from using the term aurantia as part of the botanical name because there is no legitimate species subtaxon of 'aurantia'...and it is often the case that taxa designations below the rank of species are mis-used to describe plant features which are not officially recognized by the botanists responsible for ascribing officially recognized taxa below the rank of species...


I have added some comments to the entry for
Ipomoea hederifolia v luteola 'Sunspots'
on the main entry page and to the photo threads
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/530662/
expressing serious doubts as to the botanical accuracy of the epithet...

Ipomoea indica is classified as a true perennial due to the formation of perennial roots...

Hope this info helps to clarify...

TTY,...

Ron


This message was edited Dec 8, 2007 6:42 PM

(Zone 7a)

Ron, yes, that was hugely clarifying - thank you.

Pinellas Park, FL(Zone 9b)

Ron,
Here is a picture of some seed pods taken today. Still not ripe but still upright.

BTW, I found that this vine roots from cuttings easily. It was growing into another bush and I cut it back a bit. Instead of tossing the cuttings, I just stuck them in an empty pot of dirt and watered them when I water everything else. They rooted in no time and are beginning to bloom as well.

This message was edited Dec 8, 2007 3:54 PM

Thumbnail by budgielover
Pinellas Park, FL(Zone 9b)

Also Ron,
The seeds you gave me labeled
?xenosieglia africa yellow.
I can't find any reference to on the interest. Is that the right spelling?
It has several clusters getting ready to bloom

Thumbnail by budgielover
Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Jan - Excellent photo of the seedpods of the Ipomoea hederifolia posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/budgielover_1197146547_796.jpg

The seeds that I initially distributed as possibly being
Xenostegia tridentata

have turned oiut to most closely resemble Merremia gemella,Merremia hederacea or some other very closely related plant...

The photo you have posted here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/budgielover_1197146767_527.jpg
shows what looks to be more Ipomoea hederifolia flowerbuds...looks like the yellow ones as entered in the PF's here
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/81268/

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Gosh, y'all are killin' me! I love this one, too! http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/81268/

I am just sitting here shaking my head in disbelief that there is such a wide variety of these smaller blooming MGs! I would love seeds from both of them! These mini blooms tickle my fancy! :-)

Pinellas Park, FL(Zone 9b)

Ron,
At this point, the buds are more cluster that those in the photo for this one.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/81268/
We'll see how they develop. I'm just amazed that they are such late bloomers.

Link, Sweden(Zone 5b)

Yes Becky I also love these small flower, they doing so well. I shall also be happy to try them in Sweden
~Sylvia :o)

northeast, IL(Zone 5a)

If you do have any extra seeds, I would love to try a few. I could send you some from my white Hige, if you're interested. Let me know,

Deb

Thumbnail by momcat

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