This mornings find

Jacksonville, AR(Zone 7b)

Beautiful flower Joseph. Hope you'll be sharing more with us soon.

Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

It's a purpurea JMG that came to me with the name 'Shiro Murasaki Shibori Kongo'...name verified.


This message was edited Jul 22, 2008 9:23 PM

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Joseph - I. purpurea??? No kidding!! Now I am really impressed. I haven't seen any I. purpurea blooms that even come close to that one! Very, very nice vine! I absolutely love it!

Which of course gets my mind churning once again ...

Ron (and anyone else) - Are I. purpurea's more rust resistant? The reason I ask, is because last year when I had some rust issues, none of my I. purpurea vines got rust. I was pretty surprised at that fact. They were the only MGs I had growing that didn't have rust. So was that a fluke or are they possibly more resistant?

Kittrell, NC(Zone 7b)

My Neem bottle says insecticide, fungicide and miticide. Since it is, at this moment, the only thing that I have, I'm going to give it a shot. What have I got to lose??
Hijack away!!!! I'm loving all of this information!!
Thanks Emma and Ron!!!

Kittrell, NC(Zone 7b)

Here is what one of my poor babies look like after it's haircut.
Becky, Neem lists rust in it's information on the back. Fingers are crossed that it will at least help.

Thumbnail by meag848
Kittrell, NC(Zone 7b)

Here is Miko no Mai. She has a really bad case of rust but continues to bloom her heart out!

Thumbnail by meag848
Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Great Information Joseph - Thanks!

Becky . . .
You are welcome. I'm still learning too *-*

You are welcome Melanie !
Keep those photos coming.

Emma


(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Meag - Your blooms are so pretty! Mine are done. No leaves, few blooms, just bare entertwined vines. I am just waiting on the rest of the seed pods to ripen so I can collect the seeds and remove what looks like the skeleton of the vines. :-) I didn't know that Neem worked for rust! Cool! I hope it rids it from your vines. DO let us know! :-)

I do want to mention that I had part of an MG vine (Jishi X Ten Ten) that I accidentally severed a few weeks ago when I was replacing my fountain pump. I was so mad at myself. I put the severed end in a small vase of water and guess what???!!! I got 26 seeds from this severed vine piece! LOL! I can honestly say that it works folks! And I even hand-pollinated some of the last blooms after they bloomed days later while in the vase! :-) Pretty cool stuff!


Gautier, MS

Guess what, I'm doing the same thing Becky. This morning I found that my blue tie dye was ripped in half probably from my son's dog running through the garden. I'm still pretty upset but after it was in the water had a bloom open. I hope I'll be able to get the seeds from it. I'm also think I'll cut the upper half of the vine & root it. I already have a another small vine started that way.

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

I'm just checking in here and notice that there are a 'few' questions...after re-potting all day I'm zonked and will get back to you as able...

Becky - I just use the Bonide 7%Copper Spray or Dust (bordeaux replacement)...many of the copper products that I had linked to here
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4364526
can be used...just be sure to adjust for the varying percentages...

The Ipomoea nil is more closely related to the Ipomoea hederacea > which is very often the most affected by the rust...perhaps natures way of keeping populations in balance...although I'm wondering if the variegated leaf parts of the I.nil were the 1st to succumb to the rust infection (?)...

TTYL,...

Ron

Lincoln, United Kingdom(Zone 8b)

I hate to jump back to the deer deterent bit but does anyone use electronic devices to scare them off?
We use them for moles and other vermin.

Mike

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - Thanks for the product information!

Y'all - I will be lurking here and sending out the occassional dmail to individuals, but until I get my dilemma/battle resolved with the rust, I don't have a lot to contribute. I've got some home projects I need to get done before it's back to work in a couple of weeks. So forgive me ... :-) I'll be around and be checking in! :-)

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

I was at the local nursery and asked about what to use to combat rust. The fella that owns the place told me about a product called "Systemic Fungicide for turf and ornamental" contains "Bayleton" and it is produced by Southern AG. He said that it can work up to 3 months. He mentioned that other customers came to him and asked that he start carrying it at his nursery. They swear by it. You soak the ground with water and this product mixed together. I am thinking of soaking the seeds in it, too. I would love to have more I. nils growing again! So ... we shall see. Hopefully, this isn't a waste of my money or harmful to wildlife.

I asked about Copper Sulphate and he told that it was topical. After hearing about my invasion of rust, he suggested this product instead. I also found out that my 5 Plumeria plants may be suseptible to rust too. No other plants in my yard have rust at this time.

I now have rust on all but one of the vines which are growing up the backyard fence. Guess which one doesn't have rust? An I. purpurea that hasn't bloomed yet. And it is right smack in the middle of all the others. I bet it is Pink Triple Feathers (a NOID) that I had growing there last year. LOL!

I'll keep you posted on how this product works. I have a few more seeds ripening along the picket fence by my patio and then I will be pulling up all the vines which are nothing but bare and dried out.

Added: Well pooh ... I just read that it can not be used on crops. So that tells me that it is poisonous to consume any plants which might also mean nectar. :-( I will be taking it back tomorrow!

This message was edited Jul 26, 2008 9:12 PM

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky -

I don't think you can go wrong by using the Copper Sulfate as Ron suggested. I think it will be worth the effort. If you do use the CS, I am curious how it works for you.

Emma

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Emma - They had CS but not the 7%. Much higher 30-50% which makes me a little nervous. I can't find any CS here with just 7%. It will take a minimum of 2 weeks to receive any 7% CS product if I order online and the shpg cost is ridiculous. So I was trying to find an alternative here locally. Frustrating!

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky -

You can dilute the CS to 7% with zero problem.
Jerry has to dilute all of mine. If you get the CS and can't figure out how to dilute to 7%, ask Ron or me. I don't know, but I will get the info from Jerry to pass along to you.

I believe the CS is going to be the best thing for you to use to get your Rust under control.

Emma

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

I certainly will, because I can't figure it out. I guess my math skill have long expired. LOL! Thanks for offering Emma!

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Emma - On the back of the Southern AG Liquid Copper Fungicide (1 pint) it reads:

Active Ingredients by wt.:
Copper ammonium coomplex* 31.4%
Inert ingredients 68.6%
Total $100%

* Metallic Copper Equivalent, 8.0%
Contains 0.784 LBS Copper per gallon.

So ask your sweet hubby how much I should add per gallon to get 7% solution, if you would please. Thank you!

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky -

Ok, it will be tomorrow. He has already gone to bed.
We just got back home from a day trip.

Emma

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Becky -

If you will dilute your1 pint by of CS by mixing with 4.5 pints of water, you will be very close to the 7% mark.

Emma

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Emma - WOW! That is a LESS water than the instructions on the bottle call for. The instructions on the bottle say to mix anywhere from 1 to 6 teaspoons per 1 gallon of water, depending on the plant. Banana plants required 2.5 fluid ounces per gallon, but that was the only plant requiring such a high dosage. All the others were teaspoon amounts per gallon. Are you sure about the 4.5 pints of water?

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Becky - The ingredients on the product that you bought is as you listed

Copper ammonium complex* 31.4%

Which means that there is most likely 'some' copper sulphate mixed in with the ammonium complex...not all of the 31.4% is copper sulphate...but the metal copper equivalent is 8%...which is close enough...

So,I would suggest following the directions on the product that you bought...

TTY,...

Ron

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thanks, Ron! I couldn't imagine such a strong solution that would be that much higher than what the bottle suggested. The choices here are very limited.

I have a new question ...

Has anyone used Super Thrive? I am gonna try it in my fertilizer mix to see what kind of results I get. 1 drop per gallon. HA! This should be interesting!

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Becky - I've not been able to bring myself to purchase any Superthrive myself...and nowhere have I been able to locate what the supposed 'magikal' ingredients are...personally I think the homepage 'sales rap' sounds like alot of baloney that 'sounds like' it is telling you what the product is,but actually hides behind very generalized words e.g., 'plant hormones' and 'plant vitamins'...nowhere are the actual ingredients realistically ever identified...legitimate products will identify the ingredients...
I half expected the ginsu knives to be added into the 'deal' ,but some people have reported good results with it particularly when germinating,rooting and reviving water stressed plants...

So,who knows...(!)

TTY,...

Ron


(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - "So,I would suggest following the directions on the product that you bought..."

Since MGs are NOT listed on the instructions, what amount to a gallon of water do you suggest I use? Sorry to be so dense, but I am new to gardening and treatment amounts are sooo totally alien to me!

I'll let you know on the Superthrive ... and also if the plants have an unusual glow at night! LOL! (I too looked to see what the ingredients were and nothing specific was listed! Hmmm ...)

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Becky - Look at the various dosage ranges listed the container for all of the different types of plants and average it out...

TTY,...

Ron

Kittrell, NC(Zone 7b)

New news. I stripped all of my infected leaves which was all of them. Sprayed with Neem. Then I had second thoughts about the neem, went and sprayed again with my husbands Daconil. Watered them with the receipe from the brug forum. Guess what? I have tons of new leaves beginning to come in and no signs of rust. I have my fingers crossed!!

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Way to go Melanie

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Emma - I finally got a reply back from Bayer:

"Thank you for visiting our website and your inquiry to Bayer Lawn and Garden!

The Bayer Advanced All-In-One Rose and Flower Care Concentrate should not be applied to plants grown for food.

Unfortunately, Morning Glories are a vine and there are no label directions on this product for vines. We would recommend using a foliar spray for vines."

Soooo ... it sounds like something that might be harmful to hummers and bees. So, back to square one ... foliage spray and CS. (sigh)


This message was edited Jul 29, 2008 7:03 PM

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Hi Becky -

oh well!

However, I have a bazillion bees everyday and have yet to see a dead one - except for the one I stomped when he stung me. He was on the ground and I didn't know it when I was cleaning around a plant and he zapped me. The bees go crazy on my MGs and Salvias so that you can barely get near the plants. Besides, the insect must bite the plant in order to be affected. So, I am sticking with my Bayer.

Emma

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thanks, Emma! I wonder why the Bayer company is so allusive about their product information. Maybe I'll give it a try since you have lots of bees. ;-)

Jacksonville, TX(Zone 8a)

Oh Great Becky -

Hopefully you will have luck finding their products this late into the growing season, so you may need to do some calling around. Jerry just picked up more for me while he was in Tyler today. They are totally out in Jacksonville. If you have a Lowe's they stock it as does Wal-Mart. Probably lots of other places as well that I am not familiar with.

I am very serious about the bees. In the morning when I am 'trying' to take my photos, they are zooming all around me and I have to wait until they get done with that particular bloom before I can photo it.

Good luck, and let me know if you need any informatin on what I do when I use the Bayer products. . .

Emma

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

This topic was still bothering me. I went to a local Master Gardeners open meeting this morning. Met with 3 Master Gardeners who shared a lot of interesting information with me. I went into the meeting with a list of 21 questions and my new little Orchid in hand. Everyone kinda stopped talking when I walked in with orchid in hand and clipboard. LOL! I must have looked like I meant business to them! I guess I fooled them! LOL! :-)

Anyway, one of my questions was about systemic treatments. The Master Gardeners told me that those products (chemicals) are designed get into the plant tissue, fluids, (and possibly even cell structure) to enable the products to work effectively to kill pests and diseases. All 3 Master Gardeners felt that the nectar from any plants being treated with a systemic could very well have small dosages of poison in them. Which would also be confirmed with the warning on the bottle to not use on crops and edibles. Over time, it could sterilize, sicken, kill, and/or do other harm to any creatures feeding from them especially smaller creatures such as butterflies, bees, hummingbirds, etc. The long-term effects might not show up for years, but eventually they will. They reminded me of the DDT controversy that took 50-60 years for the long-term effects to become apparent. You probably won't find dead nectaring creatures right next to your plants or gardens. Most creatures take the food back to their hives/nests or pass these poisons on to the next generation or they fly off to die a slow death. I believe that is how systemic treatments are supposed to work against pests.

That probably explains the vague reply I got when I ask specifics about their product. But at least they were honest enough to suggest topical treatments instead of their systemic products. So gotta give them a thumbs up for that! Maybe they don't really know the long term effects. So something to think about.

I am not going to push my opinions on anyone here, but felt it was definitely something I had to share. I will be using only topicals on my plants from now on. Even those bother me, so I will be using them sparingly. I love my garden critters as much as I love my plants, so I have to consider everything when dealing with chemicals or treatments.

They gave me an idea to google "Natural Garden Pest and Disease Control", which I did. Here are some very interesting links:

http://www.extremelygreen.com/pestcontrolguide.cfm
http://gardening.about.com/od/gardenproblems/a/Organic_Pest.htm
http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt_988/text/0,,HGTV_22056_62186,00.html
http://www.eartheasy.com/grow_nat_pest_cntrl.htm

And there are so many more links ...

Has anyone seen and read the book, "Organic Gardener's Handbook of Natural Insect and Disease Control"? http://www.rodalestore.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10051&productId=12677&langId=-1&mag=OG&keycode=002786

Organic Pest and Disease Control
http://books.google.com/books?id=KhksOlkC028C&dq=Organic+Gardening+Disease+control&pg=PP1&ots=N1lg9k4mgP&source=citation&sig=X0RJSBgr_1ZPp_cMSCqGJ4Chank&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=12&ct=result#PPP1,M1

Or Rodale's All-new Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening:
http://books.google.com/books?id=_u2i5A-tZdAC&dq=Organic+Gardening+Disease+control&pg=PP1&ots=G7tGTuLl1T&source=citation&sig=BU73pEOIDmqt8T5uqJ1zzKm_7zE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=13&ct=result#PPA68,M1

I am going to have to check out my local library to see if they have any of these books!


This message was edited Jul 30, 2008 6:15 PM

Hahira, GA(Zone 8b)

Bless you, Becky! I agree wholeheartedly! After watching my poor momma deteriorate &, eventually die from complications of Parkinson's disease, which we believe was (in her case, at least) caused by pesticides, I avoid like the plague, anything that kills (except a flyswatter or rolled-up newspaper) that I can help! I hardly ever even spray my house for roaches - 1 or 2 now & then don't bother me too much. ( I do actually spray wasp nests outside, b/c we are overrun with them!) When I was growing up, (in central Florida) we had a very large back yard filled with citrus trees of all kinds. We also had a 10' x 10' metal shed FILLED with all kinds of chemicals, which my mother sprayed on the trees to kill pests, etc. She was, until about 6 years before her death, the healthiest person I have ever met - she jogged & played tennis daily well into her 70s, & we feel that this, in addition to her no-red meat, then later vegetarian, diet helped stave off the ravaging disease as long as possible. (OOPS - I'll come down off my soapbox, now!) I guess you can tell it's something I feel VERY strongly about! Anyway, we have NO IDEA what the long-term effects are of most of the chemical we use, &, often, don't find out until it is too late for many. Thanks for being so careful! All God's creatures (including me!) thank you! Samantha

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Wasps and hornets (and most arthropods) are extremely sensitive to turpentine...and when I need to spray I mix up a batch of turpentine with a bottle of clove oil added in and that works and fast...with no detrimental effects on the environment...anyone using this must be extremely cautious not to get any on your skin or eyes because it will burn body tissue severely...

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

graceful_garden - {{{Hugs}}} so sorry to hear what happened to your mother. I enjoy my garden critters so much!

Ron - What does the clove oil do? Is it also a repellent?

Hahira, GA(Zone 8b)

Ron - Great recipe - I can't wait to try it - I hate using wasp spray - though I may still have to on the very tall gables of our house where the wasps love to build nests!
Becky - Bless you, dear! Thanks for the hugs! Samantha

(Zone 7a)

graceful_garden, may I add more hugs for you and condolences for your mother? Others on DG have had similar experiences (TamaraFaye's mother, for one), too. We can't have too many voices chiming in about enough -being-enough with regard to pesticides - limiting personal use of chemicals where possible is the least we can do to help reverse the chemical soup we all must live in now. The Sustainable Alternatives forum (http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/gogreen/all/) focuses on this issue quite a bit on DG. A great watchdog publication on this subject is: http://www.organicconsumers.org/ (this is politically oriented, so don't click on it if you want to avoid political content).

Does anyone remember Atenkley's post (http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3704458 - read thread, though) about discovering a relatively rust-resistant plant of I. hederacea (http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53528/)?

If my memory is working, I. hederacea may be relatively close to I. nil botanically (http://202.243.235.3/Asagao/E/relatives/01.html), so that an interspecific hybrid might be possible (evidently it was, see http://202.243.235.3/Asagao/E/relatives/04_1.html). Wouldn't it be wonderful to pass along the rust-resistance of this particular I. hederacea to the I. nils we love so much?

In that last link (http://202.243.235.3/Asagao/E/relatives/04_1.html), Dr. Yoneda said that although the cross was reflected in leaf forms, it wasn't so much in resulting flowers. Soooo - it really intrigues me to think of a cross (I. nil x I. hederacea) being crossed with I. youjiro (which is I. nil x I. purpurea) - see http://202.243.235.3/Asagao/E/menu2.html. Does anyone know if that was attempted and what the the results may have been?

That would mean growing out the resulting seedling generations without chemicals so that the ones most resistant to rust could be observed.

Just dreaming...

Ron, thank you for those less toxic alternatives to pesticides; and Becky and Emma - great dialog; and Meag, great thread - you all stimulated quite a few interesting responses.

Karen

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Thank you, Karen for doing some research on the I. hederacea. I knew that I had read something about it being crossed with I. nil, but I couldn't find the webpage.

The thought has crossed my mind many, many times to consider the possibility of crossing one species with another species so that future generations might develop a resistance to rust. Wouldn't that be awesome?!!!

That is something that might be worth pursuing ... to try to cross. I will be growing out some more MGs starting this week ... hopefully. (Things always happen ... my mother is back in the hospital again ... so ...) But that is my game plan. Spray the picket fence area with Copper Sulfate, wait a couple of days and spray again. Then amend the soil in that area of the garden bed and finally plant some more MG seeds! I am thinking of growing another I. hederacea, a new I. purpurea, and the rest will be I. nils with possibly an I. alba, too. You know me ... I love to see what I can grow out each time. I have many other new ones that I am very excited to try. I can grow 20 seeds/vines along that fence at one time, so will try to make the most of it. Plus, I will be growing some more in large pots, too!

We shall see what happens. I will try to cross the I. hedeacea with some of the I. nils to see what we get. I know the I. purpurea are resistant to rust too. But I think those are much harder to try to cross. And my Youjiro did get rust. So crossing once isn't going to do job as we know.

Karen - good to see you post. I hope to see you here more often now! :-)

This message was edited Aug 2, 2008 9:43 PM

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Clove oil is a very strong irritant and when mixed with the turpentine produces a natural insecticide that fries instantly...(!)...the clove oil also leaves a oily residue that most critters will completely avoid...

Ipomoea hederacea is difficult to cross inter-specifically...but maybe someone will have some luck with crossing a rust resistant strain with some I.nil...

TTY,...

Ron

Post a Reply to this Thread

You must log in and subscribe to Dave's Garden to post in this thread.
BACK TO TOP