To Cross or Not to Cross?

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

This is a topic that I have wanted to discuss since I started growing MGs a year ago ...
I am very interested to know the pros and cons of crossing MGs. If this topic has been brought up before, I would appreciate it if someone would direct me to the thread. (Thank you.)

This message was edited Jul 27, 2008 11:27 AM

Thumbnail by beckygardener
(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

My first set of questions:

1) How important is it to preserve original cultivars?

2) Are I. nils the most frequently crossed species of MGs?

3) Do many crosses eventually revert back to the original cultivar or are they lost forever once crossed?

Added:

4) Are some gene characteristics more predominate than others?

5) What is the estimated percentage for natural pollination to be true to the mother vine?

This message was edited Jul 27, 2008 9:57 AM

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

I would love to read EVERYONE's opinions and experiences on this topic! So feel free to share. (I hope this is not an intimidating topic.) I really want to learn more about preserving MG cultivars as well as creating crosses!!!

Which just made me think of another question:

7) When creating a cross, how many grow-outs does it take before you can tell if it will be a stable vine/blooms?

Pretoria, South Africa

Hi Becky,
I would also like know...

Elsa

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

I am bumping this up one last time. The answers to some of these questions would sure be helpful to me (and others, too!). All the questions do not have to be answered, but any replies would be very much appreciated.

(Ronnie), PA(Zone 6b)

Becky my opinion for what it's worth is eventually a stable flower has to be produced.

In essence isn't it kind of like dog breeding...way back when it took several different breeds and crosses to make one certain breed. Example is the Great Dane...Wolfhound English Mastiff=Great Dane. Not all breeds do well together and the sometimes you get an unstable breed that picks up the bad traits. I would think the same thing can happen with flowers.

I don't know if some gene characteristics are more predominate but I would think that you would want some to be. Leaf shape, flower shape and size, color, variegation, so on...

I personally love crosses whether natural or man made, although I don't have time to practice it. But I do think it is important to preserve original cultivars.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ronnie - Thank you for jumping on this thread and giving me your honest opinion. I appreciate it!

I am sure you are correct about some crosses being stable in their characteristics and others never stable. The Lady Yaguruma's Kaleidoscope that was from a cross was probably as far from stable as you can get with all the different blooms. There were so many different colors, patterns, and characteristics from just that single vine, that I was truly in awe! And I have grown others like the Gray Fog cultivar and every bloom was exactly like the previous bloom. No variation in color or pattern that I could visibly see.

Which brings me to another question that you brought up:

8) What would be considered a "bad" trait for a MG?

Uh oh ... I have been thinking too much ...

9) What is the typical number of seeds in a pod from an I. nil? And the typical number from an I. purpurea? Is each seed considered unique or more typically a "clone" so to speak of it's parent vine?

This message was edited Aug 4, 2008 11:08 PM

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

"1) How important is it to preserve original cultivars?"

Depends on how rare they are,how much you like them and any trade / growout agreements...


"2) Are I. nils the most frequently crossed species of MGs?"

I would say yes...

"3) Do many crosses eventually revert back to the original cultivar or are they lost forever once crossed?"

Depends on how the genetic dice fall..

"4) Are some gene characteristics more predominate than others?"

The overly-simplified answer is yes...the correct mathematical permutational answer could fill volumes...

"5) What is the estimated percentage for natural pollination to be true to the mother vine?"

It will vary with every set of circumstances...including all genetic and all environmental / pollination factors...

"7) When creating a cross, how many grow-outs does it take before you can tell if it will be a stable vine/blooms?"

The horticultural standard is 7 generations...

What happened to question number 6 (?!)

TTY,...

Ron

Pretoria, South Africa

Becky,
I am going to try my hand at crossing different JMG this coming season. Will take photos and keep records.

Another thing that might influence your cross is the plant you start off with. It might look like say MMM, but one never knows what is going on gene wise. I think that is what makes it so much more exciting. Even "bagged" flowers may have some or other recessive characteristics that gets triggered with a cross...

Can't wait!

WOW!! 7 generations, Ron? That will keep us busy... Becky, you are more than welcome to pass on some seed should you need help with the "growing out" bit.

Elsa

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Ron - LOL! I guess #6 got deleted or I jumped numbers ... Thanks for answering my questions.

Care to take a look and give your opinion of #8 and #9 ... and also my question below?

#10 Is the Youjiro blooms the most likely to cross with an I. purpurea since it has some I. purpurea genes in it already? I'm trying to determine which I. nil vines might prove successful to cross with an I. purpurea. And another question about the Youjiro ... what I. nil and I. purpurea were used to create it?

Elsa - I shall keep you in mind if I get some seeds that look promising. Don't hold your breath though as I've heard the success rate is very low. I am refering to my attempt at crossing an I. nil with an I. purpurea.
And I do look forward to your attempts to cross some of your vines! Good luck! :-)

This message was edited Aug 5, 2008 8:53 PM

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