Lets talk about HYBRIDIZATION

szarvas, Hungary


I was with a big " taboo " concerning the HYBRIDATION
I was thinking it is the domain of the PROS, I only could observing my plants and make selection of spontaneous mutations .
Then somebody say on the forum : This cultivar is totaly sterile , I take pollen of an other bloom to be sure to produce seeds - and this declaration make me click ( I'm naive )

Why not ME !
I propose to begin with this link :
http://www.lakemarygardens.com/japanese_morning_glory_experiment

And I 've a tons of questions and I need the collaboration of everybody to ask questions and to share experiences.

In hybridation ,everythings is allowed ?
The " parents " cultivars must be pure ?
The classic JMG ( seeds coming from Japan ) are they pure ?
First crossing F1, you need one pod ( six seeds ) or more ?
If you have a lot of F1 seeds you increase the choices and the problems ?
You must have an objective -ex : I want to make the Miko Mai Blue or the chance make the job ?
If you begin early in the season you can sow the F1 the first year ?
Etc.....

We must take themes:
The choice of the first parteners pure, not pure .....
For me what is a good JMG , I think large blooms is beautiful - Blizzard is beautiful - brillant or rare colour is beautiful - fungus resistance is beautiful ( Becky) ......


On the example the F2 generation can produce more than one new cultivar, a lot of seeds - you need time, a computer , a large garden and aspirin for the headache !

I will have my " males plants " with they owne colour marks ......

The first theme will be : the choice of the first parteners
What are your experiences ? ( with the JMG of course ! )
Dany

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

maybe some of the people in these threads might be interested to migrate away from the MG forum at Daves

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/859959/
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/836873/


those who are unable to learn from history are fated to repeat it...


au revoir

Aschaffenburg, Germany

Hey Dany and Ron,

I can understand both sides. Dany, your enthusiasm of delving into a hitherto unknown subject area, and Ron's tiredness of having to say things over and over again.

Imagine an interpreter who cannot follow what's being said...and has to ask after every sentence, what did you just say? It would drive me bananas...

Danny, I recommend that you do a lot reading in the MG threads. The information that you found about the MG exhibition is really brilliant, also the one that showed how a peonia type was produced...something to bear in mind for future crossings.

Ron is brilliant at keeping record of what has been said and where to find the information...that certainly isn't my gift, so I am grateful he gave you (and me), and others, these old threads all the same.

Also, I suppose you, Dany, know about the hybridizers forum here at Dave's, there is also information on the hybridization of MGs...

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/hybridizers/all/

Best of luck to all of us and let's be patient with one another...

It surely did help me that you, Ron, were very patient with ne when I started out two years ago...


Martin

Toronto, ON(Zone 5b)

Hi Dany,

I believe you can do anything you want, just have to be clear and precise on your experiments and objectives.

The " parents " cultivars must be pure ?
We do not know if parent cultivars are "pure" unless you have been growing out your vines for a couple of generations, knowing that the blooms, leaf, habit turn out the same for each successful generation (F1, F2, F3...... Fn).
They don't have to be pure to be crossed, but what I would do (if I'm more patient) is this:
let's just say I bought seeds from a source. To check if they are "pure" I would grow them out, pollinate them (closed pollinated or self-pollinated) and get seeds from them. These seeds (F1) I would grow out and see if all turn out to be like the parent. I would pollinate them again (cross pollinate or self-pollinate aka "selfing") and get seeds. These second set of seeds are F2 and I would just keep growing them out and keep track of notes. Now it says somewhere on another mg thread that it takes 7 generations to make a cultivar stable. I think this can be done for checking if your mg is "pure" also. Anybody knows how many nth generation it takes just to see if your plant will have the same habits and bloom characteristics? Anybody tried this?

If you're not patient (like me), I would do this:
I buy seeds and i grow them out. Once I get blooms, I will hybridize 1-5 blooms (if there are enough left for....) and the rest of the blooms will be "self-ed". The idea here is to keep having successful generations of the original plant to check for "purity" while at the same time perform hybridization experiments. You should have more seed pods from the selfing than the hybridizing. What you will have is this:

Seeds from original plant (Let the original of parent plant be F)

F1 seeds from original plant
F seeds/hybridized seeds

These 2 groups of seeds would be your grow-out that you can check simultaneously.

First crossing F1, you need one pod ( six seeds ) or more ?
Preferably more. There are many circumstances that may arise when hybridizing. it might have been cross pollinated with another type of plant. It's better to have more seed pods because the chances of getting a hybrid is higher. Plus you get more genetic variables that you can play around with. This also decreases deviations (NOT mutants) or problems, but you CANNOT completely take away deviations/problems (you can only reduce them - not everything is perfect).

If you have a lot of F1 seeds you increase the choices and the problems ?
As stated above, you increase your choices, but not necessarily the problems. If you want to address standard deviations, there are mathematical calculations for that. But I think that this is not that necessary or if you're not that interested in the value of deviation
When we write lab reports, we have a section for problems that occured or may be encountered. A good experiment must have a hypothesis/clear objectives but they do not have to be proved true at the end. A good one also generates questions which may give rise to more experiments.

You must have an objective -ex : I want to make the Miko Mai Blue or the chance make the job ?
hmm the way I view/state my objectives is a bit different. It's more like a questions like so...

What will happen if I cross Miko Mai with a Blue mg?

Then my objective will be to find the ratio and differences between bloom patterns and color:
blooms that turn out to look like Miko Mai
Blooms that turn out to look like the Blue mg
Blooms that are Blue Miko Mai

Another issue that may become problematic for those who want a "pure" line of mgs; the flower may look like it came from the same cultivar, but it carries a different genetic component. Example:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=4912641
the photo above looks like a youjiro (phenotypic characteristics or physical characteristics of youjiro), but it may share genetic components with fujishibori (which the parent plant was crossed with). When these seeds are given to people and those people give seeds to other people, the history of this crossing might be lost. Along the way, someone might mistakenly name mg vines from this crossing just Youjiro, but really, it's not a youjiro.

I was reading somewhere on the plumeria discussion board about naming cultivars. When a certain cultivar is pollinated with the same cultivar, the seed's name will not be that of the parent cultivar, but it will have the parent cultivar's name and "seedling" is added. (ex: cultivar of "Angus Gold" x "Angus Gold" will have seeds and when these seeds are germinated, the plant is not called "Angus Gold" but rather "Angus Gold" seedling) This is because the F1 are not the same as the parent.

Another way of describing phenotypes or similar-looking plants that may be of the same species/cultivar coming from the hoya discussion board:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5993159
second last paragraph. Registered hoyas that people are not certain with BUT looks like another species are labeled with "aff." Ex: Hoya aff. inflata (Hoya - genus, inflata - species).

I haven't done hybridizing as of now, as I'm still trying to figure out how to grow mgs in a healthy way during our winter months..these are just my ideas and other people might have other ideas different from me, so let's see what other ppl might have to write =)

Eliz




Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Hybridizing or crossing morning glories is something people can do without any requirements other than able body,mind,organizational skills,artistic ability,photography skills and a goal. A high school education or further is very helpful. In fifty words or less that sums up my opinion. Karen

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

Hey Martin - I'm perceiving that you may be somewhat misinterpreting my response...

The links I provided are located in the 'hybridizers' forum and they seem to be quite knowledgeable about ziinias over there...and although some people would like to see people posting about Morning Glories someplace other than right here on the main MG Forum....historically,these 'other locations' haven't exactly taken off anywhere as per MG's , and that basically the Main MG Forum is realistically where the majority of people prefer to post...as for myself I'm definitely selective where I choose to post and what I choose to respond to...but of course other people are certainly free to post in whatever direction the side winds may blow...

I used to try to answer every single question and correct every little thing,but just in case anyone hasn't noticed > I've been progressively backing off from doing that all of the time because people just don't retain information anyway when answers are simply constantly handed out...it promotes a type of mental 'lethargy'.....people don't seem to be utilizing the sticky and it certainly suits my convenience to keep the biblical adage in mind about choosing where to cast my seeds,both figuratively and literally ...because some time periods and / or 'locations' are like the rocky ground and the seeds will not bear good fruit in more ways than one...so live and learn somethings from history...


TTY,...


Ron

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Andrianne(I hope I spelled your name right),

I first want to thank you for mentioning my hobby pages. That is a work in progress and I`m honored you would mention it.

I just wanted to add my opinion just for you which you can consider. If a beautiful little vine and flower was descended from a youjiro then surely some mention should be made of it`s heritage. No Japanese Morning Glory ever loses it`s heritage. It isn`t "wrong" to cross jmg and it is not doing damage to the japanese morning glory to work with creating new varieties. I have been experimenting because I have no one to tell me what will happen to this or that gene if this or that action is done. You should attempt to preserve any jmg vine you value by hand tying blooms to prevent cross pollination.

So far,I know a few things and not all things. If a plant does not have a pair of genes for a trait then the offspring will produce vines lacking the gene entirely. A youjiro that isn`t homozygous for the white ray (or have a pair of genes) and is heterozygous (having one gene) for the white ray the offspring will roughly be 75% ray white and 25% solid. This perfectly exlains why solids turn up in youjiro and Mt.(short for Mount Fuji) Fuji mixes. And it doesn`t mean they aren`t "pure". None of the youjiros are "pure" youjiro because for years and years they have been crossed and re crossed over and over with other youjiro descendants and other varieties of i nil to get all kinds of different colors and leaves. All you can do is weed out the solids and keep tying blooms.

Of course,It is wise to keep hand tied pods of your original vines especially if you like that kind and want to grow them. There is no sense in undoing years of work that was done to fix a type of youjiro or Large Flower. If you like it preserve it. So, always reserve your hand tied pods to maintain your favorites.

Karen


This message was edited Feb 3, 2009 5:21 PM

szarvas, Hungary

Thanks Eliz , that's teaching methods for a rocky ground student like m'l.( LOL life is short )
One of my stupid question - one of your response Thanks

But one response suggest a new question .

I 've a little Hamaginga Blue - she has full of qualities but she is small.
How can I increase the size of the blooms with a crossing ?
Common people will say to take the bigger blue JMG like Fujimusume .
Other say you must stay with the streads family like Raiko, Shiborisaki or Matsukaze.
Or an other folk with 10 years of experiences will say this cultivar x.... has the reputation to encrease the size of the blooms.
If I go the the history of the forum I never find a response at My question .

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Hi Dany,

If you cross with a larger flower then it will help get a larger flower. If you want blizzard then using a large flower blizzard example makes sense. If you use a solid then you will be getting both solid and blizzard flowers down the line.

Blizzard genes are dominant. Some blizzard genes are dominant to to other blizzard genes. Solid flowers do not have a blizzard gene or maybe they have a weak blizzard gene that appears as tiny spots that are off and on.

If I were you I`d cross whatever I wanted. It would take some work.

Karen

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Dany - I basically just grow MGs because I truly love this species of vines! What I often do is cross vine blooms with itself. And then about 10 blooms up, I sometimes start crossing them. I used to keep track of what I crossed with what cultivar. But because I grow so many at one time, I now just grow them out and wait to see what I get on the crosses. I don't tie them or do anything in particular as far as pollinating blooms. Just use a small, fine paint brush and "dust" the blooms. Usually the F1 or F2 blooms come out similiar or exactly like the mother vine. But on those that I crossed, I get some pretty interesting blooms.

AND ... nothing is predictable in a cross. Trust me when I say that. You can have all the theories on each crossed cultivar, but often the blooms are something unexpected. Which ... is another reason I LOVE MGs! Always a surprise and delight!

Aschaffenburg, Germany

Hm,

Thanks Ron, yes perhaps I misinterpreted your response.

It is true that one needs to start of with pure lines and much emphasis should be placed on this (can't commercial cultivars for which we pay a lot of Euro-Dollars be expected to be pure cultivars, there is a picture on the pack and it doesn't say F1 or F2?)..the next thing would be a definition of what one wants to create...and finally an indepth knowledge of genetics (which colours, patterns and shapes are dominant, which ones are recessive)...

To be honest, unlike Becky, I don't like the surprise elements too much in my crossings, but they are unavoidable to some extent.


From my hippeastrum crosses I learned that from what I had heard from others, for example, such and such cross can't be done, cannot always be trusted 100 % because what my be true for you with your specific cultivar may not be true for my cultivar, which I bought from another supplier...Also people do give wrong information, too, for whatever reason this may be (pure ignorance or even spitefulness).

Doing good crossings needs a bit of a feel for what I am doing -- intuition is the word I was looking for -- paired with knowledge.

While in other forums people sit on their rare cultivars like a hen on her eggs, never to be shared with others, I am glad morning glories grow faster than amaryllis, so there is more of a chance we can share our treasures with others.

I think there is also wisdom and blessings in sharing with others because it's a bit like the light shared between candles...

P.S.

What I found kind of interesting in reading Dany's thread where the chocolate peonia type was presented was this recessive gene that popped up from a very unstriking common nil.

I have always been fascinated by recessive genes that are carried along for generations, i.e. remain unseen in the genetic pool, till one day one recessive gene meets its partner...

Martin

Netcong, NJ(Zone 5b)

dany12 - Thank you for your response...

Regarding your comment here
"that's teaching methods for a rocky ground student like m'l.( LOL life is short )
One of my stupid question..."


I would like to explicitly clarify that your questions are most definitely not stupid...but even the most excellent of questions may not bear good fruit if placed within a questionable context...and the location of any threads on the web in conjunction with other 'associations' should all be carefully considered relative to the membership here at Daves and for the long term peaceful health of the MG Forum...

My concern is not the specifics of your questions,but your initial suggestion that they be located on any new website that is selling MG's...because any new website selling MG's would like to directly or indirectly profit from the population flow that is generated here at Daves Morning Glory Forum...

Please familiarize yourself with the sequential presentation of 'ideas' in the following thread and the apparent difficulty encountered by some people with the concept of sales promotion as I do see that there is some interesting and relevant associations...especially the manner in which people can be obliquely 'creative'...
I posted to re-emphasize the concepts regarding probable inappropriate monetary motivated promotion either directly or indirectly,but there are some people that had particular difficulty in accepting the rule against self promotion,but of course there are definitely those 'creative' alternatives
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4596584


The suggestion that thread be located on a site other than here at the MG Forum should be dutifully considered with relevant circumspect...


So,yes,by all means let's talk about MG's, but let's keep the appropriate thread suggestions here on the MG Forum at Daves...


Enjoy your creativity...


Ron



This message was edited Feb 5, 2009 5:55 AM

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

I think you did not look at the actual page Dany was talking about. She was talking about the experiment I did.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

P.S. Dany wants to do experiments and she thought my experiment was neat that`s all. It is on a page in a seperate section of the site so I don`t think it breaks any rules.

I also think it should be ok for people to share information from other sites though there is quite a lot of selling on the internet. Just cover one eye and keep looking. :)

A friend who wants others to see my experiment I did on a hobby page should be ok and it goes right along with other links such as the Japanese blog links.

Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a)

I'm not sure what relevant circumspect means, but I moved the thread to the hybridizers forum ;o)

szarvas, Hungary

Karen thanks , hybridizing the MG become clearer.

Only 1 bloom for the F1 . All the F1 seeds produce the same type of flowers or this pic is your choice to continue your selection ?

I hope you'll put on your hoby pages your second marvellous hybrid ( 3 tons of Blue )

If I try to remake the same hybrid with the same data ,shal I have the same result ?

In a crossing A x B , if A make the seeds or B make the seeds the result is the same ?

PS : in theory YES but in practice ????crossing between horses and donkey the result is not the same , they have different name and different jobs ( functions )
Dany
Zhorse ( horse X zebra )

Thumbnail by dany12
Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

The first generation is a 1/2 and 1/2 combination of the genetic material from the parent plants. All you need is one or maybe a handful to select from if you want to ensure you get certain traits included from one parent that could get omitted by the cross. You then tie blooms on your selected F1 and get a batch of selfed seeds. Then you plant and you will see all kinds of recombinations of genes of which a lot will be apparent and some will be hidden. Then you pick through and select one you like because it has the traits you are seeking from both of the original parents or perhaps a rarity you didn`t even suspect was there hiding in the genes. It takes the ability to focus or you will get lost in the variety and never settle in on a particular goal.

You focus and begin to tie blooms on your F2 selection. Then you get the seeds and grow those out. You will probably see more variations and if you are focused on one particular set of characteristics you can weed out any not conforming. By the time you are into generation 5 you will see more and more conforming to your list of desired traits until you have a plant that will produce seeds that will breed true to what was your vision. It can become a reality.

Karen

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Cute picture Dany! I also will note that I saved tied selfed pods from both my parent plants so I don`t convert my entire seed collection into crosses.

This is a recap of the experiment you were curious about. Anyone can do this so have fun.

Edited: There was a error in the link.

This message was edited Feb 5, 2009 12:29 PM

2nd edit: Came back to fix my link to the experiment.

http://members.cox.net/burchtrees/2006%20experiment.jpg

This message was edited Feb 5, 2009 1:40 PM

Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

I am a member of Yahoo Japan by lucky guessing at what to enter in the registration fields. LOL I have tried contacting at least 1 of these sellers but never got a response.

Joseph

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Hey Joseph,

That`s from the HERBA JAPONICA thread on the morning glory forum. TTYL, Karen

Wilmington, DE(Zone 7a)

How weird, I thought I was posting in that thread! Sign me Spaced Out in Baltimore (on business trip here this month)

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

I guess this means no more hybridizing,breeding or crossing is allowed on the morning glory forum. All the crossing and trying to create new varieties has to be discussed over here. It might be confusing but we can do it! Yes we can. :)

(Ronnie), PA(Zone 6b)

I wondered where this thread went!! Why, if you are talking about crossing and hybridizing MGs shouldn't it be on the MG thread? I would think it would be most helpful there. I know for myself that I like to see what others are doing in the MG crosses but don't cross myself and wouldn't normally come here (just happen to be here for something else). I would rather be reading and asking questions on the MG forum. Just my 2 cents worth!! ☺

(Zone 7a)

Since the genetics of morning glories is unique to morning glories, and since the crossing and hybridization of morning glories is so illuminative of those unique characteristics, I, too, strongly prefer that this thread and this subject be allowed to stay on the morning glory forum.

Terry, I hope you reconsider moving this thread out of the MG forum.

Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a)

The thread was moved here at the strong insistence of some forum members, who felt this was where it belonged. If you disagree with their reasoning, that would seem a matter to work out among the forum participants.

In their defense, I'd have to say the hybridizers forum is designed for discussing the techniques and pitfalls of any cultivated plant species. There's nothing terribly unique or peculiar to hybridizing one genus versus another...they all have quirks and commonalities. This space may indeed be the best place for talking about hybridizing MGs.

And if your list of favorite forums is already too long to keep up with, and you're loathe to add yet another one, take heart: once a thread is on your thread watcher, it really doesn't matter where it's located, it'll always pop up when something new is posted.

(Zone 7a)

Terry, I agree that the process of hybridization is similar from one type of plant to another. But it's that process that sheds light on the one thing that makes morning glories unique among most other plants: their mutability (genetic changeability). That mutability is the reason morning glories are said to be the second-most researched plant on earth (after corn).

The process of crossing and hybridizing this flower is inextricably part of both understanding its uniquely fascinating science and loving its gorgeous flowers.

Please reconsider breaking up the MG forum like this.

Aschaffenburg, Germany

I am also against moving or having moved the thread into the hybridizing forum. My main reasoning being that I am interested in hybridizing MGs and not other plants like zinnias...
I would have to jump between these forums and don't like the idea...


Martin

szarvas, Hungary

I agree with what you say : Hybridizing with JMG is not only HYBRIDIZING
to hijack our thread is a false good news .

Here is a picture of hybridizing
Tomato X MG Blue Berlin
In 2010 I'll try the Blizzard

Thumbnail by dany12
(Zone 7a)

Terry, why not let those who choose to start a thread on this forum post here, and then allow those who choose to post elsewhere post there?

The originator of this thread did not choose to post on this forum, and still would like it to be moved back to the forum where it originated, because of the relevancy of the context to the subject. There's a reason Dany did not post this thread on the Rose Forum or the Poultry Forum, as stated above.

If the originator of this thread had started it on the Hybridizers Forum, I would have left this alone. But other people decided it for her - I know you think that's fair, but I hope you will reconsider the relevancy of the unique scientific context of morning glories to the process of their crossing and hybridization, and allow this thread to be placed where the originator wanted it to be.

Karen

ps - related discussion: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/949724/

Murfreesboro, TN(Zone 7a)

Karen, I've sent you a note about your thread. This thread is staying put...it just doesn't make sense to keep moving it around.

Those of you who have posted to this thread probably have it on your thread watcher. You can choose to continue watching it here, or stop watching it; it's your choice.

You can talk about hybridizing here or on the MG forum; that's also your choice.

But occasionally we do move threads around if we think there's a better place for them; we expect members to trust our judgment when we do.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Alright so we now know it is ok for everyone to talk about hybridizing on the morning glory forum.

Hey Dany, Just start another thread and use the link to my journal here to show you want to use what I did to show a example of what you are talking about.

http://davesgarden.com/tools/journal/showimage.php?eid=194762

Put (How to Experiment With My Morning Glories) in the title. This should work good for responses that will stay on topic to answer your questions.

Karen




This message was edited Feb 6, 2009 2:19 PM

(Zone 7a)

The irony here is that, since Dany usually posts appreciatively about cultivars belonging to Ipomoea nil, and since her question about making Miko Mai blue referred to a cultivar of Ipomoea nil, then, her intent might have been to ask how to make crosses - not hybrids.

If this is true, then perhaps since English is not her first language, she didn't understand that making a large, blue Ipomoea nil was more a matter of crossing cultivars both belonging to the same species (Ipomoea nil in this case), rather than hybridizing two different species of morning glory.

So, theoretically, since this thread was probably never intended to be about hybridization, it should not have been shuffled around in the first place.

I wish for the same thing that everyone on this website does: free, open, civilized dialog that hopefully enlarges understanding and appreciation of plants in many different ways. But I do not think that what happened on this thread has been conducive to that.

(Becky) in Sebastian, FL(Zone 10a)

Dany - I, agree with Karen (bluespiral), just use the word "cross" instead of hybrid. I'm unwatching this thread. I am only interested in reading posts that are new on the MG forum. I'm not interested in the Hybridizing forum at all. Sorry. And sorry this topic got bumped here. I know it was not your intention for that to happen. Many good questions though, so don't let it discourage you or your wonderful inquiries about our beloved vine species.

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

This is a subject that must be addressed on the morning glory forum as either "crosses" if they are the same species and hybridization can only be discussed if you are trying to cross different species of morning glories.

Crossing is a hybridizing term. It is not wrong to refer to morning glory crosses of any kind as hybridizing. When you are crossing and re crossing and selecting to try and find new varieties then that is a form of hybridizing. People hybridize cannas,lilies,iris and many plants and morning glories can be worked with in the same way.

Now back to Dany`s question:

{If I try to remake the same hybrid with the same data ,shal I have the same result ?

In a crossing A x B , if A make the seeds or B make the seeds the result is the same ?

PS : in theory YES but in practice ????crossing between horses and donkey the result is not the same , they have different name and different jobs ( functions )
Dany



If you repeat exactly what I did then you could get similar or very different results. Which flower (in the case of morning glories) is the pod or pollen parent in my experience doesn`t seem to make much difference (but that doesn`t mean it wouldn`t).

You are right a mare bred to a jack will get a mule but a jenny bred to a stallion will get a hinny. But this is hybridizing of two species that results in sterile offspring.

The Japanese Morning Glory ipomoa nil hybridizing is different because you are doing crosses of varieties in the same species. This is a different kind of hybridizing from crossing different species.

Karen



szarvas, Hungary

Karen ( bluespiral ) dany is a " He "

Karen crossing or hybridizing it's words but the natural laws are the same ( wow it's perhaps a question ?)
In youjiro there is a little part of Purpurea , I think ???

In your experiment of 2006 http://davesgarden.com/tools/journal/showimage.php?eid=194762 we are speaking of the colour of the bloom , what about the foliage and the grow performances etc...
There is no computer to make a simulation . lol

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Is your name Adrian? I confused your name too. :)

Youjiros are descended from a original i purpurea and i nil cross that turned out to be fertile. Today the youjiros which are the little spoked with white flowers are fertile when selfed or paired with other varieties of i nils. I did try to cross youjiro with a i purpurea ( a hige and several other purpureas) but nothing "took" or made seed pods. Youjiro means "ray white".

The leaves took on much variation dark and light green,variegated and regular solid green.Perhaps this year I`ll record one with more details for future reference. Some took on large flower characteristics and others took after the smaller youjiro vine. I chose the earliest bloom,not too long of vine and cold hardy characteristics.

Karen

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

Question: {Karen crossing or hybridizing it's words but the natural laws are the same ( wow it's perhaps a question ?)}

Hybridizing is a broad term with different ways of refering to it.

1.Crossing two different species: The fertility of offspring varies depending on what we are talking about. i nils and i purpurea can be crossed. I did 50 crossing attempts with i nil and i purpurea and not a single one made a seed pod. (This is not conclusive to any broad generalization but that is what happened.)My youjiro did make a fertile seed pod when crossed with a i nil or with another youjiro.

2. Crossing two distinct varieties within the same species for the purpose of developing new varieties: Some of the varieties may already be hybrids to begin with but are re crossed with a compatible plant with goals in mind to achieve a desired outcome.

Edited: spelling

This message was edited Feb 6, 2009 2:20 PM

(Zone 7a)

Dany, I agree with Becky - you are asking great questions and I wish you lots of new insights and fun as you pursue the subject of morning glories. I am unwatching this thread - will dmail you.

szarvas, Hungary

Wow Karen you hide your mult experiences in MG crossing . we need your coments on this forum . Thanks

Crossing to increase the fertility , that also a good topic.
Some cultivar have no futur , a real dead end.( good for the business )

Since long time I ask a thread on the tag methods ,since the soaking to the garden place. I have a lot of questions.
Dany

Baton Rouge area, LA(Zone 8b)

There could be a use for seedless morning glories for people who don`t want the volunteer baby plants sprouting everywhere. The vines making tons of seeds is such a headache to weed the areas.

I prefer morning glory vines that are not too big and they make a handful of seeds I chose but that is just me.

It has been fun answering your questions. I love all of Daves Garden.

Karen

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