New Rants: Plant Your Rantables Right Here, Y'all!

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

The Joy of Cooking is the product of years of distillation by generations of cooks. It is an excellent basic cooking source. The new cookbooks that come out are rarely well tested and the recipes often don't work.
I once had a Thai cooking teacher who typed up her recipes and bought all the ingredients and invited all of her friends over to cook the recipes according to her directions. Afterwards they ate and critiqued the recipes. Needless to say every one of them works superbly.
There was a chef in our class and when he learned that each recipe was tested on real people immediately bought both cookbooks for the classes he teaches at the California Institute of Culinary Arts. He said such testing is rare in cookbooks.

Dparsons, your statement about some people not wanting people to be educated in our country is ominously true. Very scary.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

It is true that a college education does not always guarantee you a good job. I have both a BA and an MA and have often been passed over for people with no degree. In every case those persons were male. Yes, we won two lawsuits on sexual discrimination where I worked but it continues today and not just among the old geezers. Things are changing slowly.
Also the kind of degree you have counts. Many employers don't value a liberal arts degree in hiring. They want to pay for it. They prefer someone with little or no college. Sometimes, too, they are challenged by a person, particularly a woman, who has more education than they do. They are afraid they will be beaten by this person, and if the hiring person is male, and the candidate is female, the fear of being beaten by a girl is terrifying to many males, who still dominate the job market on the whole.
But I am delighted to hear that you value education for itself. That is ideal. I agree with you that I would be happier even in a low level job because I can read and think, thanks to a good education.
And yes, Katlian, being a geek definitely has its rewards. I had to learn to be one, but I have never looked back.
I feel very sorry for those who choose, and it is a choice, to remain in ignorance instead of getting an education.

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

Yep. I'm watching the rise in private school attendance as people try to counter the education system degradation and wondering how it will pan out. The people who can't afford an education may not get one? I also think part of it is due to the corruption in the system. The political appointees of cousins into the administration and the administrative bloat in higher salary positions.

Joy of Cooking is a great book. My favorite for general cooking.

Greensboro, AL

Paj said (among other things) "Americans tend to be absolutely lost in foreign countries because they know nothing about them. They learn few, if any foreign languages, and don't know their values, much less respect them. "

This reminded me of an incident years ago: Then I had a friend who worked for one of the "think tanks" in California. She and her husband bought a plane and decided to fly to Baja with their two boys. When they got there, "Momma" exited the plane in a scanty bikini and went in a local shop to get some cokes. Her boys were flabergasted to find that they were in a foreign country. She hadn't said a thing about the fact that Mexicans speak Spanish. And there she was in a bikini, buying cokes in front of Mexican farmers who were standing around the store with their mouths open that the woman was not even dressed.

I got "Joy of Cooking" as a wedding present from my mother in law when I got married in 1958 in Houghton Michigan.
I still have the book. The husband took off with a nun in the 1960s.

This message was edited May 28, 2009 2:01 PM

Carson City, NV(Zone 6b)

Well, I didn't mean to imply that a degree will always get a better paying job but I certainly think that my education has landed me a much more interesting and rewarding job than many of my high school classmates have. I had to work hard to get an education because my family is very poor and couldn't my for college. I also grew up in a poor part of Portland and my high school had to cut a lot of good classes and spend more money on campus police to keep the gang fights and drug dealing under control. Some of the other nerdy kids have gone on to other places and good jobs.

It just seems like there's a feeling of entitlement among americans. That we should all have good jobs and nice houses and new cars without working for it. My mom works at a school and she says a lot of kids feel like they're entilited to good grades just for showing up. And their parents back them up, they will argue with the teacher or make excuses for their kids. Schools can't get kids interested in learning if their parents teach them the exact opposite.

Ugh, bad grammar, I had to fix that.

This message was edited May 28, 2009 12:29 PM

Reno, NV

I feel you on paying for collage myself. And honestly I think that I may have been better for it because it was comeing out of my pocket. I couldn't agree more about the sense of entitlement.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

You and your mother have hit the nail on the head Katlian. It is wonderful that you had the gumption to study hard, in spite of pressure not to be nerdy, and get yourself a good education and a good job. It is really unfortunate that more kids do not take advantage of the education offered them.
The last year I taught, I was so pressured to pass students who had barely even come to school that I quit. I was embarrassed to be a part of that system.
And yes, Dparsons, part of it is bloated school administration and hiring of relatives or fellow jocks -- coaches run the school system, at least at the high school level. If you ever saw the movie Stand and Deliver by Edward Olmos, you saw a picture of the way schools, or many of them, really are. Unfortunately few teachers have the stamina and dedication of the teacher in Stand and Deliver. If you haven't seen it, rent it. It is a wonderful movie about what can be done.
But good people manage to get a good education anyhow, and it sounds like you, Katlian did just that. And I have known many others who have done so. The teachers will really break their necks for a motivated student because there are so few.
A big part of the problem is drugs, too. Even here in Los Alamos, where we have a very prosperous community with high academic standards, we still have a serious drug problem among our students. Kids can't learn anything when they are stoned, and trust me, teaching a classroom full of stoned kids is not fun.
I have mixed feelings about the development of private schools. I, myself, attended a private school for high school and got a terrific education. But many private schools are founded for the purpose of racial segregation, or the propagation of a religion and can be a bad influence on the rest of the society. Bright hard working students need to rub elbows with the gang members and the druggies, so they will be able to understand the real world when they graduate. The gang members and the druggies and especially those trying to decide which way to go, need to see the hard working good students and see that there is a better way.
I am a big supporter of the public schools, but I think they are in a dreadful condition. I do hate to see the teachers blamed for what is wrong with them. I consider it a miracle if a teacher at the secondary level lasts 3 years. Few can take it and the fact that women can now get better paying jobs where they are treated better has caused us to lose some of our best teachers.
We have a big problem and it is important for parents to support their kids in school, by tutoring, by listening to problems the kids are having socially in school and trying to help them find solutions to them. After elementary school, most learning is social -- according to Maria Montessori and I think she is right. Factual learning had better be good in elementary school or high school will be a disaster for the student. Parents have the most power over their kids, but often even they are powerless to stop the pressure of the culture toward a live of TV, drugs, gangs and for the girls, teen pregnancy.
Dparsons, you are clearly very involved with your kids and I compliment you on your focus on their education and even their diet. Parenting is not easy and good parents make all the difference. Of course, some kids make it without even good parenting and those kids are truly wonder kids and have my greatest respect.
And yes, gloria, Americans have committed so many serious faux pas in foreign countries that it is hard to believe. When my stepson was 11 we took him to Guatemala and Costa Rica and explained to him that they speak a foreign language and that he could learn a few words of it in order to be able to bargain when he wanted to buy things. He did and had a ball. We later took him to Sweden and Norway where he learned about Runestones and the Vikings. DH took him to London and Paris, his senior year and his very excellent teacher said she would allow him to go if he would visit and write about a whole list of museums. He did and was fascinated with what he learned. He also got to see some terrific theater.
I realize that we are exceptionally lucky to be able to afford to be able to travel with DH when he gives classes abroad and that most people can't afford it, but one can go to Chinatown or other foreign enclaves in many towns and try foreign foods and hear foreign languages for very little money. Really the world is there for our children if we can motivate them.

This message was edited May 28, 2009 2:10 PM

Greensboro, AL

I have an English friend who owns a travel agency with her husband. She visited here last summer, despite having an aneurism (sp?) that destroyed her eye sight. Any how, she is a person who grew up poor in Ireland. She became a psychiatric nurse. Then married and built the travel agency with her husband. They have traveled all over the world. She believed that the way a young person should educate themselves was to get on a plane.

She did that with her children. After they graduated high school, she gave them a world trip. They bicycled through Europe, China and India. It sounded convincing. They sure learned how to manage on their own.

Santa Fe, NM

My mother just kept marrying foreign men and bringing their families over to mix in with ours. She said it was her way of teaching us kids about other cultures! Total immersion. I guess it worked because my siblings and I believe that everyone in the world is our brother or sister, potentially. Gloria, you crack me up! The husband ran off with a nun in the 60's but he left you the cook book! The Joy of Cooking was my mother's standard cook book altho she was never much of a cook, I have to admit. I have that cookbook and use it as a kind of reference book for general instruction. It can also be used as a doorstop.

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

A question is how to deal with this. You have the rich kids who are learning to expect to be successful by not doing anything except manipulating the system on one side, and the poor kids who are learning that no matter what they do they won't be successful and they will get beat up if they try. In the middle is the teachers who have it so bad they want to quit rather than invest in the next generation.

Getting outside of your comfort zone and learning how to work with different people is great. Traveling certainly accomplishes that.

Calgary, AB(Zone 3a)

I luv the Joy of Cooking for metric conversions. You have NO idea how wonky it is trying to cook in metric.

Denver, CO(Zone 5b)

gloria, can you please reduce paj's last post by two-thirds? lol

I love Joy of Cooking for all the answers to my cooking questions. If I am unfamiliar with an ingredient or method I usually check that book before I search the internet. I find the format of the recipes to be easy to follow too.

Greensboro, AL

Roybird: "My mother just kept marrying foreign men and bringing their families over to mix in with ours"

How many husbands were there? No wonder you are so culturally adept at Tai Chi and all.

My father was a ladies' man. I mentioned him in a previous thread. He played the banjo and had a band that played Saturday nights at the local tavern. Apparently there was still more activity after the band went home. My sister is still counting up the suspected half-sisters and brothers who still live around town. My Dad readily admitted to her these were his children. So far it seems to be that for every one of us - there are eight of us - there is another one about the same age who lived across town (!). In fact, one of the half brothers befriended my younger brother later in life and they spent several years in Alaska on a homesteading adventure.

So much for family integrity!

Pluto: I did check through Paj's post, and I do not see one word that needs to be edited out. [A good editor knows when to leave well enough alone!].

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Sorry plutodrive, I was on a rant. In rants, emotion counts more than careful, sucinct writing. I will try not to do it again! To be honest, I am not very careful about the use of perfect English on DG forums. To do that you must reread, rewrite, repeat ad infinatum. I just don't devote that kind of energy to fhe forums. I did go back and correct two errors though. Being an English teacher probably made me wordy.

Santa Fe, NM

Your English wasn't o.k.? Seemed alright to me. Dparsons, I agree with you on the school issues. I don't have any solutions. I'm just glad I don't have any school age children. Also glad I'm not teaching any! Gloria, there were 4. Sequentially.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

The solutions to our school problems will come from cultural change -- that means everybody changes. Teachers work harder, and get trained in teaching people not like them. Parents get involved with the school, talk to teachers, not just when there are problems, and come to parent -teacher conferences. Parents must also learn to turn off the TV and cut off the junk food and place expectations on kids such as washing dishes, cooking meals, or mowing the lawn. Babysitting and dog-sitting are good and teach responsibility. Parents let kids earn the things they want, don't just give them everything. ( Matching funds work out pretty well.)
Community members without children in school consider that the people who work in the school are really doing their best and, on the whole, are good people, not lazy bums who get 3 months off each year. If you can do a presentation on something at the school, let people at the school know. Kids get tired looking at the same person every day. Consider chaperoning a game or a field trip.
Support school bond issues. If the superintendent is mishandling the money, insist that he/she be fired and be proactive in getting a better one. I have never seen a classroom that had everything it needed to do a good job.
If you are a gardener, help the school plant a vegetable garden as Alice Waters did. You will get as much out of it as the kids, I promise you.
Above all educate yourself. Read everything you can get your hands on. An educated electorate makes for a democratic country.

Gastonia, NC(Zone 7b)

*patiently waiting for Plutodrive's rant.*

Greensboro, AL

I don't have any kids in the school, but most of the kids know who I am. As curator of a State owned historic house museum the kids were regularly invited for field trips. I went to the school and talked on various topics. I found out that that the kids were having a week where they were exploring different kinds of careers. I arranged with some friends to have "archeology day" at the historic site. It turned into quite a big event and went on each year until I left. The State Archeologist even came to the event. He said, Archeology is a lot of fun, but it doesn't pay much money. Which just about sums up its value as a career.

The fun thing was my former archeology boss showed up in an Indiana Jones costume and so did one of the students. That particular student is now taking some archeology courses at the University of Alabama and I hear that he is doing quite well.

What I did find out is that 4th grade level students are really really smart, but something happens to their insatiable need to learn by the time they get to high school.

This message was edited May 28, 2009 8:58 PM

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Ah, yes, gloria, you certainly did your part. And you are right. Fourth graders are very smart! So are high school students, but many things happen to them at that point. Their hormones go berserk. They begin to think about how they will make a living and it scares them. They begin to try to deal with the opposite sex and are very confused by all the rules. They are so busy sorting all this out, that it is very difficult to teach them anything. But not impossible! We just need brilliant inspired people to do so. We probably also need curriculum improvements to challenge them. We are not doing what we know is best at the high school level. There is a lot of social pressure to be tough on them. And to a degree they need it. But the kids in high school also need inspiration and teachers who have been ground down by the system and by the society as a whole aren't always inspiring.
So I want all of you to go out and offer your services to a local school. You might find them amazed, but then grateful.

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

I have to support Pajarito's rant too. It was a good one. And thank you for the suggestions on involvement.

Gloria, I remember a few things from high school that relate to not having that drive to learn:
1) The politics had affected enough of the system AND I was old enough to pick up on that and found it unpleasant.
2) Learning was treated as a chore, so largely it was. The few exceptions made a difference.
3) High school was NOT challenging.
4) I had hormones and was interested in other things in life.

I did find that interest again a few years later - after I had a break from it and was free to choose what I wanted to do with my life.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Luckily most of us, do get our heads straight some years after high school. Not everyone though.
Schools are commonly regarded as storage places for children, kind of like a kennel for dogs. All of that is wearing on the children ( and especially teenagers) and the teachers. One of the worst problems teachers have is self esteem. We all tend to value ourselves based on our pay. Teachers pay is low, so they don't value themselves very much. This is not true in countries as near as Canada and Mexico. Teachers are highly valued and well paid in Canada, at least compared to American teachers. And guess what, Canadian kids learn more in school and so do Mexican kids when they can get enough money to attend instead of working in the fields to support their families.
It is our social bias against anything to do with schools and education that cripples both our teachers and our students. We will have to change that if we want to maintain our status in the world. It really is that important.
Tell the kids you know how much you respect what the learning and the teachers how much you appreciate their sacrifice, because believe me, they make a big sacrifice to be teachers.
In 3 years after I left teaching I had beat my teaching salary. Not long after that I had more than doubled my teachers' salary. I feel some guilt about leaving, but I also think the entire society should share that guilt.

I will try to get off this rant now. I don't need to beat a dead horse.

Denver, CO(Zone 5b)

I wasn't in disagreement with paj's rant. It was really long and I found that to be funny. It doesn't take much to make me giggle.

I do find all your opinions very insightful and encourage further ranting!

Denver, CO(Zone 5b)

I was very lucky to go to a public school where the wealthy neighborhood parents actually supported the public school, the teachers were respected and valued and were paid accordingly (Downers Grove North High School in the Chicago suburbs). More than 60% of the teachers at that time (late 70s) had PhDs in their field. I did not know that this was not the norm until I got to college. I quickly became appalled at the state of our education system throughout the US and felt even more fortunate to have attended a public school system that works(ed) correctly. Because of all the wonderful teachers at my high school, college at CU Boulder was a breeze for me (undergrad school was anyway).

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

You are so lucky, Jude. Few in this country are.

Plutodrive, I wasn't worried about what you said. I was also a little worried about the length of my rant. I guess it is obvious that I have been stewing about this for a long time. Normally, I am not such a ranter. Just the topic pushed my buttons.

Gastonia, NC(Zone 7b)

It's kinda nice to have a place for rants. Thanks to Roybird and the 25 degree weather prediction that didn't happen.


Greensboro, AL

I think a rant that defines a major problem and says this is what you can do to help your community is a real contribution - not beating a "dead horse". If we are ever going to win this horse race, we need to be aware of what the situation is.

One thing we did at the historic house, is - after talking to the high school counselor - we started an intern program. We hired a student to be a tour guide on Sundays and keep the house open. So the students were able to learn local history, and meet guests from all over the world.

One of the interns was a shy young girl who had never even had a date. The counselor thought she would likely be the high school valedictorian but this was her junior year. Her first customer was a big rather rough looking black guy from Chicago. I was a little worried about the unlikely customer so I hung around but kept my distance. I discussed this later - that I was concerned about taking the guy upstairs to tour the bedrooms. She said, "I just asked him if he would like to see the bedrooms? He was a real nice guy!"

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

Education is a good thing to be concerned about Pajarito.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

I wish there were a million or 10 million more programs like yours at the historic house, Gloria. Kids tend to have very small worlds and education is all about opening up your world to see what else is going on. It gives meaning to what is in the books for history, literature and math.
As a teenager, I would read books assigned by my teachers, such as Dickens say, and have a very hard time understanding what was going on in them because it was so different from the life I experienced. I read them but didn't really "get" a lot of them because of my limited world view -- and I had been more places than most of the kids my age. Now I read those books and I understand so much better.
And I would have gotten so much more out of math, which I was good at, if I had any idea that it was useful for anything. It just seemed like doing puzzles endlessly, and I am not a puzzle lover. As an adult I got a lot more out of math than as a young person.
So when I was teaching kids who had trouble learning to read, I found that if I could give them books about backgrounds they were familiar with, they would enjoy reading and improve through practice, which is how I discovered many good books for kids including "Bless me, Ultima" and such. It is not that it was so easy to read, it is that it dealt with situations that were somewhat familiar to them. As one learns to read better, one can branch out into books about strange situations. Field trips are hard to find money for, but I let my students dream up field trips in areas that fascinated them. We went to a mortuary and to the state penitentiary. They asked to. We ate smoked oysters and chocolate covered ants because we had read about all of these things in class. It was great fun but helped me answer questions about oysters like, "where are their arms and legs?"
It was nice that your little student didn't mind showing the big burly guy around and nice that it didn't go awry. It bet it was a big confidence builder for her.

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

I think we forget how long it takes children to absorb enough understanding to appreciate things as we do as mature adults. Its a lot of building - one thing on another. I had to deal with finding the next relevant thing for kids to learn when I coached soccer. So much they didn't know that I wanted to give them, but much of it didn't take if I jumped too far ahead of where they were at. Teaching them to pass the ball to the open space on the field and to expect to receive the ball in the open space on the field was difficult. So essential to the game but it required a large number of simpler lessons and a good deal of experience playing before the concept could make sense to them.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Yes, that is exactly what I am referring to. Abstract learning will only take us so far. Sometimes we have to see, touch, hear and or taste in order to grasp what we are trying to learn.

Santa Fe, NM

Our "troubled" foster son liked the poetry of Jimmy Santiago Baca and "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainence ". My spelling is awful and I am in a hurry. Always good for a rant !, that's me. But, now off to see the new history museum here and get a good walk before the next deluge.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Yes, it is sometimes amazing what kids find intense interest in. It is a lot easier to teach them if you work from their own interests. On the other hand, if you have 30 students you can have trouble getting to everybody's interests.
The kids who went to the funeral home were testing me I think. Once we got there they asked if they could see the enbalming room. The owner said sure and when they went in they saw forceps hanging on the wall in all different sizes. They immediately recognized them as roach clips and were appalled. They turned white and silent.
The bus driver commented that on the way back to school they were the quietest bunch of kids he had ever driven -- and these were high school kids!

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

It is a very profound lesson to realize that you are mortal.

Greensboro, AL

Visiting a funeral home was a major learning experience for me. We did it in "Primitive Religion" class as freshmen at Santa Barbara.

My student - one of the interns - did become validictorian of her class and then went to the Air Force Academy in Colorado. Later she became a flight controller and now has 2 children.

Another program I participated in here that I would recommend to everybody is the Labauch Literacy Program. I taught 2 students one on one and both were able to get their GEDs as a result of passing the literacy program. A person who can't read in our society is at an extreme disadvantage and has no self esteem. Learning to read is the one thing they can do that is a life changing experience for them.

This message was edited May 29, 2009 12:14 PM

This message was edited May 29, 2009 12:15 PM

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Cool about the young valedictorian. Sounds like she has done well. It is always nice to be part of the life of a young person who succeeds. I was especially proud when I met, in Nanjing China of all places, the mother of a young lady I had taught. She told me her daughter had just gotten her Phd. in English Literature from Boston University and that she felt I had had a strong influence on her. Boy, did that make me feel good. And mind you, I don't have a degree in English literature and hated English after my wonderful high school teacher. I majored in Spanish but took some English linguistics and creative writing classes and my foreign language lit classes counted toward my teaching certificate. Odd where life takes us. I did enjoy teaching English -- except for the paper grading -- because I tried to overcome the stuff that had made me hate it in college.

The reading program sounds good, but I see nowhere on the website where it tells how to get started with this program. I have never heard of it before and assume that it is being used, maybe even around here. This is something I could get into. I could also get in to teaching English as a Second Language, but most of those programs tend to be full time with the schools an would require my reviving my teaching credentials which would undoubtedly require more college classes and taking the National Teachers' Exam which don't appeal to me in the least.
But teaching reading as a volunteer would be very pleasurable.
I did once volunteer as a reading teacher in the summer when I was a teacher. I worked at the library with an intractable little 8 year old who sang at the Opera as part of the childrens' choir. I finally got him interested with the book "How to Eat Fried Worms" which is all about nasty little boy stuff. He was obviously bright, just spoiled. It took a lot to get him started.

Yes, dParsons. The trick was definitely on those kids. It made them think hard which was just what I had in mind when I took them there.

Greensboro, AL

I know someone else who teaches Enlish Lit. They are voting on a literacy program this week. Ill let you know.

The Labach program was discontinued here for lack of volunteers. Ill see what I can find out. I know there is a "teaching plan" for setting it up, and the program is all preplanned to get the student at the right level.

In graduate school I tutored "English as a Foreign Language" - I took classes from Edith (?) Trager at San Jose State. It was essentially the same program as the "Monterey Army Language School". The idea is to keep the student 'literate' in the grammar at all times before building up vocabulary. A little different than learning words or phases. You always use whole sentence structures. I guess you would need credentials - might be worth it to qualify for Jr. College teaching though.

The Asian students were very rewarding to teach. For them an education is the difference between having a life or going back to the farm which they don't want to do.

Albuquerque, NM(Zone 7b)

The Asian students were very rewarding to teach. For them an education is the difference between having a life or going back to the farm which they don't want to do.

Ironic statement considering the focus here of some forums on DG of growing your own ... :) But yes, manual farming is a hard life.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

I would rather be a volunteer. I have become very independent since I retired. I will keep my ear to the ground for volunteer literacy or ESL programs. Yes, I was educated in the Monterrey Language School methods in my Teaching of Spanish classes and took French that way. I actually still remember a little bit of the French I learned that way over 40 years ago. I used to hold an ESL certificate but there are lots of new education requirements to be certified these days and frankly I have had enough college to last more than one life time.
But I would enjoy being a volunteer. There used to be lots of literacy programs. I wonder what became of them.

Los Alamos, NM(Zone 5a)

Growing your own is wonderful, but few want to live the hard life of farming. Besides, the economics are against making a living at farming these days, though I know someone who does. But he is a young man who leads a meager life and still lives with his parents and he is over 30. He is also unmarried. Nice person, but not many would enjoy his life.

I find that Spanish speaking immigrants are often great students, too. They came to this country so they and their kids could have a better life and they see education as a major part of that. They work hard and study like demons. Interestingly, the Santa Fe Public Schools have been seriously and publicly challenged by the local immigrant community to improve the caliber of the schools. Now that is the kind of push that could actually change the country. Counter to popular opinion, most immigrants are dying to learn English. It is their ticket to social mobility.

This message was edited May 29, 2009 12:42 PM

Greensboro, AL

Some ship lines have jobs for teaching English as a foreign language and you get a cruise vacation while your'e at it. The Asian students I taught in California were from S. Viet Nam, Thailand, and Pakistan and the students planned to go back home. The Viet Namese girl was majoring in banking. She would work so hard at pronunciation she would get a sore throat - and she would con me to meet me later in the student Union for more lessons!

Here's a Laubach Teaching English as a 2nd Language program in San Diego.

Find a literacy program.

This message was edited May 29, 2009 1:50 PM

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